[Pharo-project] Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting
Hi, there is a problem with Pharo on Seasidehosting. Using a stock Pharo image 10225, installing Seaside from Universe, it works perfectly fine locally. As soon as I upload and run the image on Seasidehosting, it doesn't work anymore.(503: Service Temporarily Unavailable). There is nothing in the log files accessible through the seasidehosting admin interface. You can see the problem on http://diagen.seasidehosting.st. To reproduce: - download Pharo version 10225 (newer versions have the annoying MIME problem) - ScriptLoader new installingUniverse - In the Universe browser, install Seaside. - Upload the image and the changes file to a seasidehosting account - Start the image Since all Pier images are now based on Pharo, this is a problem for all new pier users. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
Hi, Is it possible this error? sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. Aborted I get this following the procedure below on a Debian Lenny PPC system with Squeak 3.10-4. Gcc is 4.3.2. I do not get this on a Ubuntu hardy ppc system with the same version of squeak. Gcc is slightly older at 4.2.3. I've worked around this, for the moment, by adding -memory 200m to the squeak command line. I spent some weekend debugging this, but, I didn't find where the problem it is comes from. cheers bruce On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 04:45:00PM +0100, Damien Cassou wrote:
Hi,
there is a problem with Pharo on Seasidehosting. Using a stock Pharo image 10225, installing Seaside from Universe, it works perfectly fine locally. As soon as I upload and run the image on Seasidehosting, it doesn't work anymore.(503: Service Temporarily Unavailable). There is nothing in the log files accessible through the seasidehosting admin interface.
You can see the problem on http://diagen.seasidehosting.st.
To reproduce:
- download Pharo version 10225 (newer versions have the annoying MIME problem) - ScriptLoader new installingUniverse - In the Universe browser, install Seaside. - Upload the image and the changes file to a seasidehosting account - Start the image
Since all Pier images are now based on Pharo, this is a problem for all new pier users.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
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Hi, On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Bruce O'Neel <squeak@pckswarms.ch> wrote:
Is it possible this error?
sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. Aborted
I don't think so because seasidehosting would print an error message in the system logs and it is not the case. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. Aborted
I don't think so because seasidehosting would print an error message in the system logs and it is not the case.
I can only guess, but maybe the font-enumeration at startup causes the VM to hang. Seaside Hosting uses quite an old and modified version of the Unix VM. Maybe Adrian can verify that this is/is not the problem, by opening a Pharo image on seasidehosting.st within an X session? Cheers, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
I tried what Lukas suggested. What happens is that Squeak starts up but then hogs the CPU and does not draw the GUI. However, an old version of Pharo, #10130, still works. Version #10172 does not work either, which suggests that its not Poymorph. My best guess is that its FreeType. I commented out the two startUp: methods of FreeTypeFontProvider and FreeTypeSettings, but without success. How could FreeType be disabled? Adrian On Feb 19, 2009, at 14:42 , Lukas Renggli wrote:
sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. Aborted
I don't think so because seasidehosting would print an error message in the system logs and it is not the case.
I can only guess, but maybe the font-enumeration at startup causes the VM to hang. Seaside Hosting uses quite an old and modified version of the Unix VM. Maybe Adrian can verify that this is/is not the problem, by opening a Pharo image on seasidehosting.st within an X session?
Cheers, Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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look in the archive and on the vm-dev list I think people agree this is a gcc 4.3 issue. On 19-Feb-09, at 4:15 AM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
Is it possible this error?
sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. Aborted
I get this following the procedure below on a Debian Lenny PPC system with Squeak 3.10-4. Gcc is 4.3.2. I do not get this on a Ubuntu hardy ppc system with the same version of squeak. Gcc is slightly older at 4.2.3.
I've worked around this, for the moment, by adding -memory 200m to the squeak command line.
I spent some weekend debugging this, but, I didn't find where the problem it is comes from.
cheers
bruce
-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
Hi, Thanks. I kind of assumed this, but, sigh, running gdb is fun, right? cheers bruce On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:18:49AM -0800, John M McIntosh wrote:
look in the archive and on the vm-dev list I think people agree this is a gcc 4.3 issue.
On 19-Feb-09, at 4:15 AM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
Is it possible this error?
sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. Aborted
I get this following the procedure below on a Debian Lenny PPC system with Squeak 3.10-4. Gcc is 4.3.2. I do not get this on a Ubuntu hardy ppc system with the same version of squeak. Gcc is slightly older at 4.2.3.
I've worked around this, for the moment, by adding -memory 200m to the squeak command line.
I spent some weekend debugging this, but, I didn't find where the problem it is comes from.
cheers
bruce
-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
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Hi, Um, yes, I know you've discussed this before, but.... I'm not sure it's just a gcc 4.3.2 problem. I downloaded and poked at the tar file of 3.10-4's source. I got this from http://squeakvm.org/unix/. The error message comes from uxGrowMemoryBy, but, I think it comes from being called (two frames higher) in incrementalGC. The code is (from the gnu-interp.c file, though interp.c is the same): if (((((usqInt) ((longAt(foo->freeBlock)) & AllButTypeMask))) < (((usqInt) foo->growHeadroom))) && (foo->gcBiasToGrow > 0)) { /* begin biasToGrow */ /* begin growObjectMemory: */ foo->statGrowMemory += 1; limit = sqGrowMemoryBy(foo->memoryLimit, growSize); if (!(limit == foo->memoryLimit)) { foo->memoryLimit = limit - 24; initializeMemoryFirstFree(foo->freeBlock); } weDidGrow = 1; } So we call sqGrowMemoryBy with growSize which is used to calculate newDelta in uxGrowMemoryBy. A search of incrementalGC though shows that growSize, a sqInt is declared it's never set. It turns out that with my system (Debian Lenny ppc, with gcc 4.3.2) growSize is zeroed. Maybe that's the 'problem' with gcc 4.3.2? If I set it to some number, say, 100000, then a print statement just before sqGrowMemoryBy comes out and squeak grows its memory, and, volia, no crash. Now, this might just be bypassing the real problem, but, it's unclear to me how an uninitialized growSize would be a good idea. This also explains why my previous workaround, using the flag -memory on the command line, caused the problem to not occur. cheers bruce On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:18:49AM -0800, John M McIntosh wrote:
look in the archive and on the vm-dev list I think people agree this is a gcc 4.3 issue.
On 19-Feb-09, at 4:15 AM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
Is it possible this error?
sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. Aborted
I get this following the procedure below on a Debian Lenny PPC system with Squeak 3.10-4. Gcc is 4.3.2. I do not get this on a Ubuntu hardy ppc system with the same version of squeak. Gcc is slightly older at 4.2.3.
I've worked around this, for the moment, by adding -memory 200m to the squeak command line.
I spent some weekend debugging this, but, I didn't find where the problem it is comes from.
cheers
bruce
-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Hi, I downloaded Ian's image/changes bundle named unix-3.10-4.vmm.tar.gz from http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/ and looked into it a bit. In ObjectMemory biasToGrow it looks like the problem is biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock) self growObjectMemory: growSize there are no '.'s after the lines. Shouldn't it look like: biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock). self growObjectMemory: growSize. that? It looks like the slang interpreter/translater must be coughing a bit on what is basically slight invalid syntax, right? I guess that next up I have to figure out how to actually run vm maker :-) cheers bruce On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:32:52PM +0100, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
Um, yes, I know you've discussed this before, but....
I'm not sure it's just a gcc 4.3.2 problem.
I downloaded and poked at the tar file of 3.10-4's source. I got this from http://squeakvm.org/unix/.
The error message comes from uxGrowMemoryBy, but, I think it comes from being called (two frames higher) in incrementalGC.
The code is (from the gnu-interp.c file, though interp.c is the same):
if (((((usqInt) ((longAt(foo->freeBlock)) & AllButTypeMask))) < (((usqInt) foo->growHeadroom))) && (foo->gcBiasToGrow > 0)) { /* begin biasToGrow */ /* begin growObjectMemory: */ foo->statGrowMemory += 1; limit = sqGrowMemoryBy(foo->memoryLimit, growSize); if (!(limit == foo->memoryLimit)) { foo->memoryLimit = limit - 24; initializeMemoryFirstFree(foo->freeBlock); } weDidGrow = 1; }
So we call sqGrowMemoryBy with growSize which is used to calculate newDelta in uxGrowMemoryBy.
A search of incrementalGC though shows that growSize, a sqInt is declared it's never set. It turns out that with my system (Debian Lenny ppc, with gcc 4.3.2) growSize is zeroed. Maybe that's the 'problem' with gcc 4.3.2?
If I set it to some number, say, 100000, then a print statement just before sqGrowMemoryBy comes out and squeak grows its memory, and, volia, no crash.
Now, this might just be bypassing the real problem, but, it's unclear to me how an uninitialized growSize would be a good idea.
This also explains why my previous workaround, using the flag -memory on the command line, caused the problem to not occur.
cheers
bruce
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:18:49AM -0800, John M McIntosh wrote:
look in the archive and on the vm-dev list I think people agree this is a gcc 4.3 issue.
On 19-Feb-09, at 4:15 AM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
Is it possible this error?
sqUnixMemory.c:172: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0` failed. Aborted
I get this following the procedure below on a Debian Lenny PPC system with Squeak 3.10-4. Gcc is 4.3.2. I do not get this on a Ubuntu hardy ppc system with the same version of squeak. Gcc is slightly older at 4.2.3.
I've worked around this, for the moment, by adding -memory 200m to the squeak command line.
I spent some weekend debugging this, but, I didn't find where the problem it is comes from.
cheers
bruce
-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 01:47:40PM +0100, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
I downloaded Ian's image/changes bundle named unix-3.10-4.vmm.tar.gz from http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/ and looked into it a bit.
In ObjectMemory biasToGrow it looks like the problem is
biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock) self growObjectMemory: growSize
there are no '.'s after the lines. Shouldn't it look like:
biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock). self growObjectMemory: growSize.
that?
It looks like the slang interpreter/translater must be coughing a bit on what is basically slight invalid syntax, right?
This is http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6667. The fix was applied to VMMaker-tpr.63. You are probably using sources generated from VMMaker 3.8b6, which is the same as VMMaker-tpr.58, so the sources you are using would not have this fix. If someone can build a VM using more up to date VMMaker and verify that the problem goes away, that would be good. I suggest using VMMaker-dtl.113 from the VMMaker project on SqueakSource for this. (Note, there is a more recent VMMaker-eem.114 that contains Eliot's updates for block closures, but you may have trouble loading it into some Squeak/Pharo images. The glitch may be sorted out by the time you read this, if not just stick with VMMaker-dtl.113 or earlier for now.)
I guess that next up I have to figure out how to actually run vm maker :-)
Yes :) Dave
Hi, Ah, very nice. Thanks! cheers bruce On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 09:16:41AM -0500, David T. Lewis wrote:
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 01:47:40PM +0100, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
I downloaded Ian's image/changes bundle named unix-3.10-4.vmm.tar.gz from http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/ and looked into it a bit.
In ObjectMemory biasToGrow it looks like the problem is
biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock) self growObjectMemory: growSize
there are no '.'s after the lines. Shouldn't it look like:
biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock). self growObjectMemory: growSize.
that?
It looks like the slang interpreter/translater must be coughing a bit on what is basically slight invalid syntax, right?
This is http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6667. The fix was applied to VMMaker-tpr.63. You are probably using sources generated from VMMaker 3.8b6, which is the same as VMMaker-tpr.58, so the sources you are using would not have this fix.
If someone can build a VM using more up to date VMMaker and verify that the problem goes away, that would be good. I suggest using VMMaker-dtl.113 from the VMMaker project on SqueakSource for this. (Note, there is a more recent VMMaker-eem.114 that contains Eliot's updates for block closures, but you may have trouble loading it into some Squeak/Pharo images. The glitch may be sorted out by the time you read this, if not just stick with VMMaker-dtl.113 or earlier for now.)
I guess that next up I have to figure out how to actually run vm maker :-)
Yes :)
Dave
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Old news. http://www.nabble.com/An-issue-with-Slang,-the-interpreter---the-VM,-and-a-p... Could be other important VMMaker changes between 2007 and today... On 22-Feb-09, at 4:47 AM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
I downloaded Ian's image/changes bundle named unix-3.10-4.vmm.tar.gz from http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/ and looked into it a bit.
In ObjectMemory biasToGrow it looks like the problem is
biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock) self growObjectMemory: growSize
there are no '.'s after the lines. Shouldn't it look like:
biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock). self growObjectMemory: growSize.
that?
It looks like the slang interpreter/translater must be coughing a bit on what is basically slight invalid syntax, right?
I guess that next up I have to figure out how to actually run vm maker :-)
cheers
bruce
-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
Hi, Yes, thanks. The problem is that the most recent unix vm has exactly this problem. cheers bruce On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 04:33:20PM -0800, John M McIntosh wrote:
Old news.
http://www.nabble.com/An-issue-with-Slang,-the-interpreter---the-VM,-and-a-p...
Could be other important VMMaker changes between 2007 and today...
On 22-Feb-09, at 4:47 AM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
I downloaded Ian's image/changes bundle named unix-3.10-4.vmm.tar.gz from http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/ and looked into it a bit.
In ObjectMemory biasToGrow it looks like the problem is
biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock) self growObjectMemory: growSize
there are no '.'s after the lines. Shouldn't it look like:
biasToGrow | growSize | growSize := growHeadroom*3/2 - (self sizeOfFree: freeBlock). self growObjectMemory: growSize.
that?
It looks like the slang interpreter/translater must be coughing a bit on what is basically slight invalid syntax, right?
I guess that next up I have to figure out how to actually run vm maker :-)
cheers
bruce
-- === ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === ========================================================================
Hi, I am not sure I got the summary of the discussion related to the problem of deploying a Pharo-based image to seasidehosting. Is there any conclusion? Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."
Hi, There seem to be three solutions (in best to worst order). - someone (Ian maybe) needs to rebuild the Unix VM with a VMMaker from within the last two years. Apparently the bug has been fixed for a while. - pass a fixed memory size to the VM -memory 200m or so does the trick. - patch the existing C source code. cheers bruce On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 09:19:13AM +0100, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
I am not sure I got the summary of the discussion related to the problem of deploying a Pharo-based image to seasidehosting. Is there any conclusion?
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."
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may be we should slowly think that we should get some people On Mar 4, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
There seem to be three solutions (in best to worst order).
- someone (Ian maybe) needs to rebuild the Unix VM with a VMMaker from within the last two years. Apparently the bug has been fixed for a while.
- pass a fixed memory size to the VM
-memory 200m
or so does the trick.
- patch the existing C source code.
cheers
bruce
On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 09:19:13AM +0100, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
I am not sure I got the summary of the discussion related to the problem of deploying a Pharo-based image to seasidehosting. Is there any conclusion?
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
2009/3/4 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
may be we should slowly think that we should get some people
err.. get people for what?
- Show quoted text - On Mar 4, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
There seem to be three solutions (in best to worst order).
- someone (Ian maybe) needs to rebuild the Unix VM with a VMMaker from within the last two years. Â Apparently the bug has been fixed for a while.
- pass a fixed memory size to the VM
-memory 200m
or so does the trick.
- patch the existing C source code.
cheers
bruce
On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 09:19:13AM +0100, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
I am not sure I got the summary of the discussion related to the problem of deploying a Pharo-based image to seasidehosting. Is there any conclusion?
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
creating a unix vm. stef On Mar 4, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
2009/3/4 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
may be we should slowly think that we should get some people
err.. get people for what?
- Show quoted text - On Mar 4, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
There seem to be three solutions (in best to worst order).
- someone (Ian maybe) needs to rebuild the Unix VM with a VMMaker from within the last two years. Apparently the bug has been fixed for a while.
- pass a fixed memory size to the VM
-memory 200m
or so does the trick.
- patch the existing C source code.
cheers
bruce
On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 09:19:13AM +0100, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
I am not sure I got the summary of the discussion related to the problem of deploying a Pharo-based image to seasidehosting. Is there any conclusion?
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM: http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't. Bryce
Thanks a lot I'm sure that linuxers and windowzers will try and report. So I imagine that we will have to do the closure integration now :) Stef On Mar 4, 2009, at 9:39 PM, <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk> <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk
wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Bryce
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I'll suspect these both are missing the fixes for the 32bit/64bit number conversion To confirm someone can load the Alien work and run the SUnits to see if the math tests fail. Attached are the hacks to let you work with a 3.9 image if you pull the ClosureBootstrap-08-11-14.tar.gz from http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/Closures0811/Bootstrap/ To modifiy an Pharo image first I'd let someone look carefully at what's in the ClosureBootstrap change sets. As mentioned I have build a macintosh carbon vm 4.0.0b1 You can find that in the EXPERIMENTAL Folder via the FTP or idisk link on http://smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html On 4-Mar-09, at 12:39 PM, <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk> <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk
wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Bryce
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-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
Bryce, I am a natural victim for this, as I use both systems. What do I need to try? Is there a particularly simple/good/whatever way to install on Linux? I always seem to either stick something exactly where I want it, or configure and make, accepting all of the defaults. Since you seem to be somewhere in between (pre-built), I should play dumb and get some advise. On Linux, I use shell scripts to load the image I want. To avoid concerns over which VM is loading, would I give a full path to the VM also? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:39 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory -- Was Re: Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM: http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't. Bryce _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Schwab,Wilhelm K writes:
Bryce,
I am a natural victim for this, as I use both systems. What do I need to try? Is there a particularly simple/good/whatever way to install on Linux? I always seem to either stick something exactly where I want it, or configure and make, accepting all of the defaults. Since you seem to be somewhere in between (pre-built), I should play dumb and get some advise.
On Linux, I use shell scripts to load the image I want. To avoid concerns over which VM is loading, would I give a full path to the VM also?
I'd just unzip or untar the contents of the archives somewhere convenient. On Linux all the plug-ins are external so you need to move the entire directory tree. On Windows it's a single file as all plugins are built internally. I've followed the lead of the main VM maintainers for each platform for this. I can modify how these VMs are packaged if something else is more convenient. Bryce
Bryce, I don't think the plugin locations (internal vs. external) matter. Having how it works documented somewhere easy to find is probably a lot more important than "fixing it." Time permitting, I will kick the tires tonight. My present gripe with Linux (perhaps just because my VM is too old) is poor coverage of the virtual keys (arrows, end, etc.). If you got that too, I'll be REALLY happy :) Aside from running Pharo, what do I need to do to test for you? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 3:32 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: {Spam?} Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory -- Was Re: Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting Schwab,Wilhelm K writes:
Bryce,
I am a natural victim for this, as I use both systems. What do I need to try? Is there a particularly simple/good/whatever way to install on Linux? I always seem to either stick something exactly where I want it, or configure and make, accepting all of the defaults. Since you seem to be somewhere in between (pre-built), I should play dumb and get some advise.
On Linux, I use shell scripts to load the image I want. To avoid concerns over which VM is loading, would I give a full path to the VM also?
I'd just unzip or untar the contents of the archives somewhere convenient. On Linux all the plug-ins are external so you need to move the entire directory tree. On Windows it's a single file as all plugins are built internally. I've followed the lead of the main VM maintainers for each platform for this. I can modify how these VMs are packaged if something else is more convenient. Bryce _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Schwab,Wilhelm K writes:
Bryce,
I don't think the plugin locations (internal vs. external) matter. Having how it works documented somewhere easy to find is probably a lot more important than "fixing it."
Time permitting, I will kick the tires tonight. My present gripe with Linux (perhaps just because my VM is too old) is poor coverage of the virtual keys (arrows, end, etc.). If you got that too, I'll be REALLY happy :)
Aside from running Pharo, what do I need to do to test for you?
Nothing really. I've no idea what virtual key support is like, I don't tend to use them. The Linux VM is my regular VM. Bryce
Bryce, The v-keys are well-supported in the Windows VM, and are heavily entrenched in my typing skills. If it's not already improved, I will try to find something on how to process them. IIRC, Windows sends separate messages for them, so it could easily be different on Linux. Is there a chance that Sophie would contain relevant changes? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:19 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory -- Was Re: Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting Schwab,Wilhelm K writes:
Bryce,
I don't think the plugin locations (internal vs. external) matter. Having how it works documented somewhere easy to find is probably a lot more important than "fixing it."
Time permitting, I will kick the tires tonight. My present gripe with Linux (perhaps just because my VM is too old) is poor coverage of the virtual keys (arrows, end, etc.). If you got that too, I'll be REALLY happy :)
Aside from running Pharo, what do I need to do to test for you?
Nothing really. I've no idea what virtual key support is like, I don't tend to use them. The Linux VM is my regular VM. Bryce _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Bryce, The vm appears to work on Linux. The machine I am using is not the fastest in the world (1.8G,500M), but it was handy when the old one went on to its reward. The virtual keys are better in this vm; home and end work, which is a nice start. The numeric pad delete does not work and a couple of the other (forget what they are called) are non-mapped or do weird things. I'll see what I can find on how to handle them. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:32 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory -- Was Re: Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting Bryce, The v-keys are well-supported in the Windows VM, and are heavily entrenched in my typing skills. If it's not already improved, I will try to find something on how to process them. IIRC, Windows sends separate messages for them, so it could easily be different on Linux. Is there a chance that Sophie would contain relevant changes? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:19 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory -- Was Re: Incompatibility between Pharo and Seasidehosting Schwab,Wilhelm K writes:
Bryce,
I don't think the plugin locations (internal vs. external) matter. Having how it works documented somewhere easy to find is probably a lot more important than "fixing it."
Time permitting, I will kick the tires tonight. My present gripe with Linux (perhaps just because my VM is too old) is poor coverage of the virtual keys (arrows, end, etc.). If you got that too, I'll be REALLY happy :)
Aside from running Pharo, what do I need to do to test for you?
Nothing really. I've no idea what virtual key support is like, I don't tend to use them. The Linux VM is my regular VM. Bryce _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Schwab,Wilhelm K writes:
Bryce,
The vm appears to work on Linux. The machine I am using is not the fastest in the world (1.8G,500M), but it was handy when the old one went on to its reward.
The virtual keys are better in this vm; home and end work, which is a nice start. The numeric pad delete does not work and a couple of the other (forget what they are called) are non-mapped or do weird things. I'll see what I can find on how to handle them.
Thanks Bryce
Schwab,Wilhelm K writes:
Bryce,
I don't think the plugin locations (internal vs. external) matter. Having how it works documented somewhere easy to find is probably a lot more important than "fixing it."
Time permitting, I will kick the tires tonight. My present gripe with Linux (perhaps just because my VM is too old) is poor coverage of the virtual keys (arrows, end, etc.). If you got that too, I'll be REALLY happy :)
Aside from running Pharo, what do I need to do to test for you?
The two things that would be helpful are: * Play with them a bit and feedback on what's most needed * Get them working the write the documentation on how to use them and put it somewhere easy to find. ;-) My suspicion is the most needed feature will be the free type plugin for Windows. Bryce
Hi Bryce, On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:39 PM, <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
I've just tried your VM and it works quite fine, at least the FreeType plugin. I've replaced my default VM by yours and will keep you informed in case of a problem. Thank you very much -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
Hi, Since this seems to work well for the x86 folks, Bryce, would you mind uploading a source tarball so that others could build for other unixy system? That would be great! If you could do this then I'll put my feeble attempts to build VMs on hold since it's probably better for only one person to do this work per platform, rather than have a confusing set of built VMs. :-) cheers bruce On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 08:39:11PM +0000, bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Bryce
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Try http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux-src.tz Though if you want to help out I'm sure there's things to do. Bryce Bruce O'Neel writes:
Hi,
Since this seems to work well for the x86 folks, Bryce, would you mind uploading a source tarball so that others could build for other unixy system? That would be great!
If you could do this then I'll put my feeble attempts to build VMs on hold since it's probably better for only one person to do this work per platform, rather than have a confusing set of built VMs. :-)
cheers
bruce
On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 08:39:11PM +0000, bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Bryce
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Hi, Thanks. I'll look into it in the next day or two. I'm happy to help since, for selfish reasons if no other, I want Pharo to work well on Linux, and, non x86 linuices as well. I just don't think it makes sense to have multiple people running VMMaker to do the same thing. Also I don't think Squeak/Pharo/etc is helped by having multiple VMs per platform, since that's almost a 100% guarantee that we'll be constantly answering with: "No, to work with the foo 9.4.2.1 image you need the bar VM 7.2.4.4. But for the foo 9.4.2.2 image you need the bar VM 7.7.4.8.1. Yea, you want the one built by Joe because Frank insists on using his custom patched compiler that works for no-one else. Oh, you want to run the baz 5.6.2 image at the same time? Ah, that doesn't work, and, your suffix mapping will have to change every time." Thanks again! cheers bruce On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:28:50PM +0000, bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk wrote:
Try
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux-src.tz
Though if you want to help out I'm sure there's things to do.
Bryce
Bruce O'Neel writes:
Hi,
Since this seems to work well for the x86 folks, Bryce, would you mind uploading a source tarball so that others could build for other unixy system? That would be great!
If you could do this then I'll put my feeble attempts to build VMs on hold since it's probably better for only one person to do this work per platform, rather than have a confusing set of built VMs. :-)
cheers
bruce
On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 08:39:11PM +0000, bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Bryce
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
thanks for your help. I would love to avoid the " .." below. stef On Mar 8, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
Thanks. I'll look into it in the next day or two.
I'm happy to help since, for selfish reasons if no other, I want Pharo to work well on Linux, and, non x86 linuices as well.
I just don't think it makes sense to have multiple people running VMMaker to do the same thing. Also I don't think Squeak/ Pharo/etc is helped by having multiple VMs per platform, since that's almost a 100% guarantee that we'll be constantly answering with:
"No, to work with the foo 9.4.2.1 image you need the bar VM 7.2.4.4. But for the foo 9.4.2.2 image you need the bar VM 7.7.4.8.1. Yea, you want the one built by Joe because Frank insists on using his custom patched compiler that works for no-one else.
Oh, you want to run the baz 5.6.2 image at the same time? Ah, that doesn't work, and, your suffix mapping will have to change every time."
Thanks again!
cheers
bruce On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:28:50PM +0000, bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk wrote:
Try
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux-src.tz
Though if you want to help out I'm sure there's things to do.
Bryce
Bruce O'Neel writes:
Hi,
Since this seems to work well for the x86 folks, Bryce, would you mind uploading a source tarball so that others could build for other unixy system? That would be great!
If you could do this then I'll put my feeble attempts to build VMs on hold since it's probably better for only one person to do this work per platform, rather than have a confusing set of built VMs. :-)
cheers
bruce
On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 08:39:11PM +0000, bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Bryce
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Hi, Thanks, I've finally gotten back to this and tested it. It works fine except for sound, which is broken in the same way that the 3-10.4 ones are broken (on at least ppc). They sound very bad. Does sound work on x86? If true, then it's probably a byte swapping problem and I can track that down. If no, then I have no idea. I did spend some time on it and wasn't successful. The 3.7-7 vm worked fine for sound. Thanks! cheers bruce On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 11:31:48AM +0100, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
Hi,
Since this seems to work well for the x86 folks, Bryce, would you mind uploading a source tarball so that others could build for other unixy system? That would be great!
If you could do this then I'll put my feeble attempts to build VMs on hold since it's probably better for only one person to do this work per platform, rather than have a confusing set of built VMs. :-)
cheers
bruce
On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 08:39:11PM +0000, bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Bryce
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Bruce O'Neel writes:
Hi,
Thanks, I've finally gotten back to this and tested it.
It works fine except for sound, which is broken in the same way that the 3-10.4 ones are broken (on at least ppc). They sound very bad.
Does sound work on x86? If true, then it's probably a byte swapping problem and I can track that down. If no, then I have no idea.
I did spend some time on it and wasn't successful. The 3.7-7 vm worked fine for sound.
I haven't tested sound in a few years, it's not something I use. Last time I did test it, I needed to make sure my kernel had the right sound interface installed. Bryce
If you are using the core audio unix drivers on os-x powerpc. Then you should look at the mac os carbon sqUnixSoundMacOSX.c there are a number of fixes, at least four come to mind, one being getting the endien correct for powerpc. On 17-Mar-09, at 2:35 PM, <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk> <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk
wrote:
Bruce O'Neel writes:
Hi,
Thanks, I've finally gotten back to this and tested it.
It works fine except for sound, which is broken in the same way that the 3-10.4 ones are broken (on at least ppc). They sound very bad.
Does sound work on x86? If true, then it's probably a byte swapping problem and I can track that down. If no, then I have no idea.
I did spend some time on it and wasn't successful. The 3.7-7 vm worked fine for sound.
I haven't tested sound in a few years, it's not something I use. Last time I did test it, I needed to make sure my kernel had the right sound interface installed.
Bryce
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:39 PM, <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Good job man!. I really notice a difference in response time. For me, in Linux, it seems to be faster than standard VM. However, In windows, It seems it doesnt work te FreeType plugin. My fonts are not nice :( any idea? The same image, but with standard VM, FreeType works well. thanks, Mariano
Bryce
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Mariano Martinez Peck writes:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:39 PM, <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Good job man!. I really notice a difference in response time. For me, in Linux, it seems to be faster than standard VM. However, In windows, It seems it doesnt work te FreeType plugin. My fonts are not nice :( any idea? The same image, but with standard VM, FreeType works well.
You'll need to get the FreeType plugin from elsewhere. I didn't compile it this time. I mean to include it in later versions of this VM. Bryce
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 6:06 PM, <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Mariano Martinez Peck writes:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:39 PM, <bryce@kampjes.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse writes:
creating a unix vm.
Here's a Unix VM built with an up to date VMMaker and a Windows VM:
http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-linux.tz http://ftp.squeak.org/Exupery/vms/exupery-vm-0.15-win32.zip
Both have the closure bytecodes and the FreeType bitblit extensions. The Linux VM includes the FreeType plugin, the Windows VM doesn't.
Good job man!. I really notice a difference in response time. For me, in Linux, it seems to be faster than standard VM. However, In windows, It seems it doesnt work te FreeType plugin. My fonts are not nice :( any idea? The same image, but with standard VM, FreeType works well.
You'll need to get the FreeType plugin from elsewhere. I didn't compile it this time. I mean to include it in later versions of this VM.
Ok, I would be glad you let me know when you do this :) thanks mariano
Bryce
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
participants (12)
-
Adrian Lienhard -
Bruce O'Neel -
bryce＠kampjes.demon.co.uk -
Damien Cassou -
David T. Lewis -
Igor Stasenko -
John M McIntosh -
Lukas Renggli -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Tudor Girba