+1 i don't read all mails, but at least by seeing in subject, i have an idea that there are some activity around some issue. Also, in case if something attracts my attention, where i feel i can be helpful, i can easy click on message and read it. In contrast, when all tracker activity is hidden inside issue tracker, i have no chances to be aware who doing what and what problem is attacked by people, unless i cc-ed to this issue as well. 'Tracking' tracker by manually inspecting every single issue is time sink. So, i think couple of extra lines in mails list worth it, because it helps to people to be aware of what others do. Of course i'm not happy with it as well. Most messages are not quite informative , but its up to those who posting them: make posts more elaborate , so others could understand what is it about, where the problem etc etc. On 18 November 2010 19:33, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:

+1

Sorry guys this is not optimal but after been against when I see it in squeak, I'm in favor because it helps understanding what is happening.

Sorry to be blunt but ****YOU**** yes you guys do not look at the bug or bug fixes in general.

So often ME myself and I, have to send email about point from the archive to the mailing-list. Often I do not even see that a bug has been posted and YES I have 5 rss feed and I read them all.

What is the last time you read the bug archives to see what is happening there? So if you do not read the archive then how can you help? how can we make sure that people are aware?

What is the last time you look at the code of the fixes that got integrated? Because if you do not read it how can we do quality control? So if I could I would send the diff of all the package in the mailing-lits as this is done in squeak.

Now what we can do to please some of you so far 4, we could create a mailing-list where such mails would be sent. But let us see so far who is really against.

Stef

...

Remember that most email client support filters. You can easily create one.

Cheers

Mariano

-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

2010/11/18 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:

What is the last time you read the bug archives to see what is happening there? So if you do not read the archive then how can you help? how can we make sure that people are aware?

Stef, I'm subscribed to some issues through standard Google Code "star this issue" feature. So, I'm aware of the changes happening to these bugs. I'm also subscribed to the RSS channel of the Pharo Google Code site, but I do not follow it closely so far -- just have not enough time. So my point is that interested people still are able to follow the bugflow without subscribing the whole list to the updates. And if you want to make sure people are aware of the work you're doing, I'd rather recommend you to pay more attention to the news page of the pharo-project.org website. And having a list of immediate goals and time line for them could also help, I think. Forcing people to follow all the minor activities happening on the tracker (I mean changing milestones, statuses and so on) won't rather help (IMHO). I've also created a filter to ignore all such messages after I've seen them flooding my inbox. So I even don't see them and this fact somehow contradicts to your point of making people aware. I still think important things are worth talking abouth them. I mean bootstraping from kernel or new compiler or something else but in the form of goals, plans, progress made and so on. Yeah, I know it's easier to speak than actually do :), but effect might be better. You may now ask, why I'm so concerned about this issue, if I do not even receive these autogenerated emails :) Ok, I just think that it's wrong. But I may be wrong too of course :) There are two things I find not practical. One of them is that replying to autogenerated mail in the list and not copying these replies to the tracker actually splits the discussion and makes it harder for people to track it later. The other thing is mailing list archives like the one on Nabble. It's just becoming harder to surfe them. And I'm not aware of the other opensource projects doing the same with their mailing lists.

What is the last time you look at the code of the fixes that got integrated? Because if you do not read it how can we do quality control? So if I could I would send the diff of all the package in the mailing-lits as this is done in squeak.

You can't do quality control this way. Everyone won't look at the code of these fixes, interested people are already looking at them so you won't gain anything. And it's iterative process after all: you make changes, people look at the code of these changes doing their job in Pharo, and if they're unhappy with these changes you'll know about it :) But important changes still need to be reviewed by experienced community members, no doubts here.

Now what we can do to please some of you so far 4, we could create a mailing-list where such mails would be sent. But let us see so far who is really against.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not extremely against this change. I just think that this is not the best way to achieve your goals. My apologies for the long mail. George