[Pharo-project] What's the problem people? :)
Hi Pharaos (and Squeak-dev)! :) Alert to Pharaos: This is a cross post! (hehe) I just wanted to say (for whatever that is worth) that I like Pharo. And I like Squeak.org. And I like everyone doing stuff in/for/on Squeak/Pharo/Smalltalk/Huemul whatever. I have Pharo on my disk. I just started playing in it for a toy project involving RB AST, RoelTyper etc. But I do all Gjallar work on 3.10.2/LPF right now, it takes time moving a large project to a different baseline, so Gjallar will probably be on 3.10.2 for a while. But nothing prevents us from testing out Pharo later on - whatever works the best I say. Gjallar is also 95% ported to GS these days. I agree with Keith/Matthew that making good tools that can *span* different forks/communities *must* be a good thing for us all to have. All tools don't need to be spanning, but it doesn't hurt if *some* are - right? I *also* agree with Pharo people that hey, Pharo is a fork - we/you can do whatever we/you like! And that is good - it's the strength of Pharo. If Pharo diverts too much in "base stuff" it might turn into a weakness - but we just don't know these things, it is still to be seen. It is all about balance, benefits, etc. And we don't need to get angry with each other do we? :) Trust me, it just burns your energy! I have code that seems to be doing fine in Pharo - SocketStream comes to mind. I know Pharo seem to be more inclined to use Universes than SM - fine with me, no problem. I hope to move SM forward in some way, and I hope it can still be loaded/used from within Pharo - even if it gets thrown out soon (I think I read something about that). I also intend to use both Pharo, Squeak or whatever works best for my different tasks. And finally I hope to revive DeltaStreams and make that work in Pharo as well as most other Squeak flavors. We are all Squeakers, right? :) regards, Göran PS. I am not sure why I am so damn cheerful, perhaps it is the SURGE I seem to feel in the Squeak community - so many things going on all over the place... ;)
Hi Pharaos (and Squeak-dev)! :)
Hi goran are you planning to come finally to esug that we drink beer together? This year there will be a wine tasting social event :)
Alert to Pharaos: This is a cross post! (hehe)
I just wanted to say (for whatever that is worth) that I like Pharo. And I like Squeak.org. And I like everyone doing stuff in/for/on Squeak/Pharo/Smalltalk/Huemul whatever.
I have Pharo on my disk. I just started playing in it for a toy project involving RB AST, RoelTyper etc.
I got (not tested) a new visitor for RB AST (elf on squeaksource)
But I do all Gjallar work on 3.10.2/LPF right now, it takes time moving a large project to a different baseline, so Gjallar will probably be on 3.10.2 for a while. But nothing prevents us from testing out Pharo later on - whatever works the best I say. Gjallar is also 95% ported to GS these days.
sounds good.
I agree with Keith/Matthew that making good tools that can *span* different forks/communities *must* be a good thing for us all to have. All tools don't need to be spanning, but it doesn't hurt if *some* are - right?
Exact. This is why I wrote a chapter on Installer for the new pharo book :)
I *also* agree with Pharo people that hey, Pharo is a fork - we/you can do whatever we/you like! And that is good - it's the strength of Pharo. If Pharo diverts too much in "base stuff" it might turn into a weakness - but we just don't know these things, it is still to be seen.
Exact
It is all about balance, benefits, etc. And we don't need to get angry with each other do we? :) Trust me, it just burns your energy!
Exact this is why we did pharo :) to stop arguing but doing instead: but you know us :)
I have code that seems to be doing fine in Pharo - SocketStream comes to mind.
:) the power of MIT :) In fact I do not know.
I know Pharo seem to be more inclined to use Universes than SM - fine with me, no problem.
I hope to move SM forward in some way, and I hope it can still be loaded/used from within Pharo - even if it gets thrown out soon (I think I read something about that). Yes I read that too :)
I also intend to use both Pharo, Squeak or whatever works best for my different tasks.
Ok if you want to have some feedback on SM we can take that offline.
And finally I hope to revive DeltaStreams and make that work in Pharo as well as most other Squeak flavors.
We are all Squeakers, right? :)
regards, Göran
PS. I am not sure why I am so damn cheerful,
May be you were always like that ;) I do not know I was kind not that cheerful most of the time :)
perhaps it is the SURGE I seem to feel in the Squeak community - so many things going on all over the place... ;)
I do not know. We just started to move and to move at our pace with a shared vision built on our past experience and communication. Even our name and logo means what we want to build: a warm beam of light in dark tempest nights where any Smalltalker can find a place if he wants.
2009/3/4 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Hi Pharaos (and Squeak-dev)! :)
Hi goran
are you planning to come finally to esug that we drink beer together? This year there will be a wine tasting social event :)
I hope i can join you :)
Alert to Pharaos: This is a cross post! (hehe)
I just wanted to say (for whatever that is worth) that I like Pharo. And I like Squeak.org. And I like everyone doing stuff in/for/on Squeak/Pharo/Smalltalk/Huemul whatever.
I have Pharo on my disk. I just started playing in it for a toy project involving RB AST, RoelTyper etc.
I got (not tested) a new visitor for RB AST (elf on squeaksource)
But I do all Gjallar work on 3.10.2/LPF right now, it takes time moving a large project to a different baseline, so Gjallar will probably be on 3.10.2 for a while. But nothing prevents us from testing out Pharo later on - whatever works the best I say. Gjallar is also 95% ported to GS these days.
sounds good.
I agree with Keith/Matthew that making good tools that can *span* different forks/communities *must* be a good thing for us all to have. All tools don't need to be spanning, but it doesn't hurt if *some* are - right?
Exact. This is why I wrote a chapter on Installer for the new pharo book :)
I *also* agree with Pharo people that hey, Pharo is a fork - we/you can do whatever we/you like! And that is good - it's the strength of Pharo. If Pharo diverts too much in "base stuff" it might turn into a weakness - but we just don't know these things, it is still to be seen.
Exact
It is all about balance, benefits, etc. And we don't need to get angry with each other do we? :) Trust me, it just burns your energy!
Exact this is why we did pharo :) to stop arguing but doing instead: but you know us :)
I have code that seems to be doing fine in Pharo - SocketStream comes to mind.
:) the power of MIT :) In fact I do not know.
I know Pharo seem to be more inclined to use Universes than SM - fine with me, no problem.
I hope to move SM forward in some way, and I hope it can still be loaded/used from within Pharo - even if it gets thrown out soon (I think I read something about that). Yes I read that too :)
I also intend to use both Pharo, Squeak or whatever works best for my different tasks.
Ok if you want to have some feedback on SM we can take that offline.
And finally I hope to revive DeltaStreams and make that work in Pharo as well as most other Squeak flavors.
We are all Squeakers, right? :)
regards, Göran
PS. I am not sure why I am so damn cheerful,
May be you were always like that ;) I do not know I was kind not that cheerful most of the time :)
perhaps it is the SURGE I seem to feel in the Squeak community - so many things going on all over the place... ;)
I do not know. We just started to move and to move at our pace with a shared vision built on our past experience and communication. Even our name and logo means what we want to build: a warm beam of light in dark tempest nights where any Smalltalker can find a place if he wants.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Hi Pharaos (and Squeak-dev)! :)
Hi goran
are you planning to come finally to esug that we drink beer together? This year there will be a wine tasting social event :)
I hope i can join you :)
normally we will have a lecture and practice to taste wine Lecture made by an expert in wine :) And this will be normally for any ESUG attendee. Stef
2009/3/4 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Hi Pharaos (and Squeak-dev)! :)
Hi goran
are you planning to come finally to esug that we drink beer together? This year there will be a wine tasting social event :)
I hope i can join you :)
normally we will have a lecture and practice to taste wine Lecture made by an expert in wine :) And this will be normally for any ESUG attendee.
i more concerned meeting you and Goran, than tasting a wine. I'm not drinking :)
Stef - Show quoted text - _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
normally we will have a lecture and practice to taste wine Lecture made by an expert in wine :) And this will be normally for any ESUG attendee.
i more concerned meeting you and Goran,
Me too
than tasting a wine. I'm not drinking :)
me neither but food will be good :) And I want to get better at tasting wine :)
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
normally we will have a lecture and practice to taste wine Lecture made by an expert in wine :) And this will be normally for any ESUG attendee.
i more concerned meeting you and Goran,
Me too
than tasting a wine. I'm not drinking :)
me neither but food will be good :) And I want to get better at tasting wine :)
I drink! :) And yes, it would be real fun - hmmm, in August. Well, we will see! regards, Göran
Hi Göran, I think this is a good and constructive way to look at Squeak/Pharo! Re SqueakMap. We planned to remove SM from the core (doesn't need to be part of an image that gets deployed), but make it loadable again from the (not yet existing) universe. The only dependency I see is on MC (MCSMCacheRepository), and a few overrides. Is there already a loadable package for SM? Cheers, Adrian ___________________ http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/ On Mar 4, 2009, at 16:29 , Göran Krampe wrote:
Hi Pharaos (and Squeak-dev)! :)
Alert to Pharaos: This is a cross post! (hehe)
I just wanted to say (for whatever that is worth) that I like Pharo. And I like Squeak.org. And I like everyone doing stuff in/for/on Squeak/Pharo/Smalltalk/Huemul whatever.
I have Pharo on my disk. I just started playing in it for a toy project involving RB AST, RoelTyper etc.
But I do all Gjallar work on 3.10.2/LPF right now, it takes time moving a large project to a different baseline, so Gjallar will probably be on 3.10.2 for a while. But nothing prevents us from testing out Pharo later on - whatever works the best I say. Gjallar is also 95% ported to GS these days.
I agree with Keith/Matthew that making good tools that can *span* different forks/communities *must* be a good thing for us all to have. All tools don't need to be spanning, but it doesn't hurt if *some* are - right?
I *also* agree with Pharo people that hey, Pharo is a fork - we/you can do whatever we/you like! And that is good - it's the strength of Pharo. If Pharo diverts too much in "base stuff" it might turn into a weakness - but we just don't know these things, it is still to be seen.
It is all about balance, benefits, etc. And we don't need to get angry with each other do we? :) Trust me, it just burns your energy!
I have code that seems to be doing fine in Pharo - SocketStream comes to mind. I know Pharo seem to be more inclined to use Universes than SM - fine with me, no problem.
I hope to move SM forward in some way, and I hope it can still be loaded/used from within Pharo - even if it gets thrown out soon (I think I read something about that). I also intend to use both Pharo, Squeak or whatever works best for my different tasks.
And finally I hope to revive DeltaStreams and make that work in Pharo as well as most other Squeak flavors.
We are all Squeakers, right? :)
regards, Göran
PS. I am not sure why I am so damn cheerful, perhaps it is the SURGE I seem to feel in the Squeak community - so many things going on all over the place... ;)
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Hi Göran,
I think this is a good and constructive way to look at Squeak/Pharo!
Re SqueakMap. We planned to remove SM from the core (doesn't need to be part of an image that gets deployed), but make it loadable again from the (not yet existing) universe. The only dependency I see is on MC (MCSMCacheRepository), and a few overrides. Is there already a loadable package for SM?
Well... yes... but I honestly don't recall the incantation! :) There is a small doit that sucks it down and installs it. No, not packaged as a simple MC - because it was meant to install in older Squeaks you know. Will look into it. regards, Göran
Göran Krampe wrote:
Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Hi Göran,
I think this is a good and constructive way to look at Squeak/Pharo!
Re SqueakMap. We planned to remove SM from the core (doesn't need to be part of an image that gets deployed), but make it loadable again from the (not yet existing) universe. The only dependency I see is on MC (MCSMCacheRepository), and a few overrides. Is there already a loadable package for SM?
Well... yes... but I honestly don't recall the incantation! :) There is a small doit that sucks it down and installs it. No, not packaged as a simple MC - because it was meant to install in older Squeaks you know.
Will look into it.
regards, Göran
Its not as simple as you might think. You will probably be all right in an image which doesn't have it installed. I have added a utility script to Installer expressly for loading Squeakmap. To invoke it directly use: Installer install: 'LevelPlayingField-UpdateSqueakMap'. The code that this runs is: Installer wsm addPackage: 'SqueakMap2 base'; bootstrap; install. Installer wsm addPackage: 'SqueakMap2 loader'; bootstrap; install. Installer wsm addPackage: 'SqueakMap2 base'; install. Installer wsm addPackage: 'SqueakMap2 loader'; install. the #bootstrap call, results in the mcz being installed with MczInstaller from the source.st file. Keith
Keith Hodges wrote:
Göran Krampe wrote:
Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Hi Göran,
I think this is a good and constructive way to look at Squeak/Pharo!
Re SqueakMap. We planned to remove SM from the core (doesn't need to be part of an image that gets deployed), but make it loadable again from the (not yet existing) universe. The only dependency I see is on MC (MCSMCacheRepository), and a few overrides. Is there already a loadable package for SM?
Well... yes... but I honestly don't recall the incantation! :) There is a small doit that sucks it down and installs it. No, not packaged as a simple MC - because it was meant to install in older Squeaks you know.
Will look into it.
regards, Göran
Its not as simple as you might think. You will probably be all right in an image which doesn't have it installed. I have added a utility script to Installer expressly for loading Squeakmap. To invoke it directly use:
Installer install: 'LevelPlayingField-UpdateSqueakMap'.
The code that this runs is:
Installer wsm addPackage: 'SqueakMap2 base'; bootstrap; install. Installer wsm addPackage: 'SqueakMap2 loader'; bootstrap; install. Installer wsm addPackage: 'SqueakMap2 base'; install. Installer wsm addPackage: 'SqueakMap2 loader'; install.
the #bootstrap call, results in the mcz being installed with MczInstaller from the source.st file.
Keith
Cool! Thanks Keith. regards, Göran
participants (5)
-
Adrian Lienhard -
Göran Krampe -
Igor Stasenko -
Keith Hodges -
Stéphane Ducasse