Below. On Apr 20, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:

And when we started to do that in 3.9, we got critized to death... it's not the process that unstuck Squeak.

The fact is: Squeak moves because Pharo marches in front. Pharo unstuck Squeak.

I *tried* with all my energy to move Squeak and I could not. It was impossible. Understood and agreed. Pharo was an uprising against the disorganized sloth and conflicting goals in the Squeak community. I jumped all over the Pharo image when I fist discovered it.

What happened with me was I saw Andreas look at what you guys had done with Pharo in terms of tools and process and propose we do it too. I thought it was a good idea. My ideal world, frankly, is somewhere between Cuis and Pharo, but with better multimedia support. In particular I like the smallness of Cuis, as well as the unparalleled Morphic performance. It's my dream that someday soon, when we understand the image a little better, (really excited about the efforts from the Pharo community in this regard!) we will be able to arrive on a kernel even smaller than Cuis that everyone can agree upon, and then different sets of goals could become more like "distributions" than like "forks." I'm strongly averse to buying into one community and rejecting the other. At the end of the day, we're all Smalltalkers and we're all using the same VM. That said, most of my time has gone into Squeak, because some of the stuff I use was unceremoniously ripped out of Pharo (and for understandable reasons, I'm not complaining.) I love Pharo: you gentlemen led the charge. I think it's fantastic that you wouldn't settle for less than awesome, and you pretty much lit a fire up under our asses! We needed it. That's my two cents, to beat a long-dead horse:) Hey, BTW, I asked Stephane about who from the Pharo community might want to speak, either in person or remotely, at the Seattle Smalltalk Users Group, which I started last week, and he suggested you. I use a lot of Squeak and Cuis, but mostly have only used Pharo for Seaside; that said I *really* want to present a fair and balanced view of the world. I have at least one member now who prefers Pharo that I know of. What do you think? Interesting projects you'd like to talk about? Thanks very much for your thoughtful reply, and thanks so much for leading the charge. I was new to Smalltalk when you guys started it up, and I might not have stuck around if you hadn't. 'Till all are one!

Marcus

-- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.