[Pharo-project] light-table: live programming for python
impressive how much support they got: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ibdknox/light-table not much missing in our system, is it?
On 1 June 2012 13:29, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
impressive how much support they got:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ibdknox/light-table
not much missing in our system, is it?
No, definitely not. Most of it is automatically pulling up contextual info (like if you're implementing #myFoo on some object, bring up all the implementors in some no-clicks-needed window (possibly with some classes preferentially highlighted - sub/superclasses and other classes that satisfy similar protocols) and the senders of same in another (with suitable highlighting of the actual send site). The more clever de-abstraction stuff we can get quite easily by manipulating ASTs. (In a Smalltalk-based system, I'd half expect us to keep ASTs attached to method on which the programmer worked.) frank
We're not missing much, and somehow Smalltalk and particularly Pharo provides much more. It's funny how a non-mainstream lang like Clojure was able to pitch a tool like this to raise $300K in Kickstarter. I envy these kind of outcomes, and always makes me thing what we, Smalltalkers as a community, are missing something regarding communication/marketing. Best regards, -- Esteban -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/light-table-live-programming-for-python-tp4632751p4632... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jun 1, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:
We're not missing much, and somehow Smalltalk and particularly Pharo provides much more.
It's funny how a non-mainstream lang like Clojure was able to pitch a tool like this to raise $300K in Kickstarter. I envy these kind of outcomes, and always makes me thing what we, Smalltalkers as a community, are missing something regarding communication/marketing.
Yes. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
we should produce more 5 min videos!!! Look we are not able to even do that. Stef On Jun 1, 2012, at 5:02 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:
We're not missing much, and somehow Smalltalk and particularly Pharo provides much more.
It's funny how a non-mainstream lang like Clojure was able to pitch a tool like this to raise $300K in Kickstarter. I envy these kind of outcomes, and always makes me thing what we, Smalltalkers as a community, are missing something regarding communication/marketing.
Best regards,
-- Esteban
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/light-table-live-programming-for-python-tp4632751p4632... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
we should produce more 5 min videos!!! Look we are not able to even do that.
No smalltalker with a sane mind would record himself five minutes doing his regular work. :) But truth is we should find a way to impress people like light table did. The most impressive thing in the demo, and I'd bet that was the main resonator in the audience, was the variables replacement by its current values. I don't know how hard would be to have debugger with a splitted window or viewing mode showing the code with the actual values of the variables. Regards, -- Esteban. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/light-table-live-programming-for-python-tp4632751p4632... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
we should get an infrastructure so that it is easy to experiment with such things. This is why we need OPAL and AST right in the system. It is time to rethink our system before it gets just too oldish. Stef On Jun 1, 2012, at 8:12 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
we should produce more 5 min videos!!! Look we are not able to even do that.
No smalltalker with a sane mind would record himself five minutes doing his regular work. :)
But truth is we should find a way to impress people like light table did.
The most impressive thing in the demo, and I'd bet that was the main resonator in the audience, was the variables replacement by its current values.
I don't know how hard would be to have debugger with a splitted window or viewing mode showing the code with the actual values of the variables.
Regards,
-- Esteban.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/light-table-live-programming-for-python-tp4632751p4632... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 1 June 2012 20:12, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
we should produce more 5 min videos!!! Look we are not able to even do that.
No smalltalker with a sane mind would record himself five minutes doing his regular work. :)
Haha.. well said!
But truth is we should find a way to impress people like light table did.
The truth is, that its not impressed me.. after things i seen in smalltalk.
The most impressive thing in the demo, and I'd bet that was the main resonator in the audience, was the variables replacement by its current values.
I don't know how hard would be to have debugger with a splitted window or viewing mode showing the code with the actual values of the variables.
we should have better text/parser model.. then you can easily view the variable value(s), just by hovering mouse over the text piece in debugger. btw, Gaucho already takes steps into that direction: it using parser to navigate the code using the AST tree (so you not walking over separate characters, but over AST nodes) it is not far from that point to debugger and/or code pane, where you can exploit that (code highlighting/contextual help, navigating etc etc). -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Igor Stasenko wrote
On 1 June 2012 20:12, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@> wrote:
But truth is we should find a way to impress people like light table did. The truth is, that its not impressed me.. after things i seen in
smalltalk.
Not me either, I even ranted about it as soon as it was published (http://goo.gl/7Eaxa). Apparently I have no community impact :P Igor Stasenko wrote
I don't know how hard would be to have debugger with a splitted window or viewing mode showing the code with the actual values of the variables.
we should have better text/parser model.. then you can easily view the variable value(s), just by hovering mouse over the text piece in debugger.
btw, Gaucho already takes steps into that direction: it using parser to navigate the code using the AST tree (so you not walking over separate characters, but over AST nodes) it is not far from that point to debugger and/or code pane, where you can exploit that (code highlighting/contextual help, navigating etc etc).
We take a similar approach in our software app, where users program formulas in a pseudo language for which we use SmaCC and hence we have a parse tree. Then users can see both their "code" with the variables replaced by their values (evaluated with a particular domain context), and even view and browse the expression tree (no one uses it, it just was simple to build). Though it is not in real time because could involve heavy DB queries, it is completely feasible to do with "regular" smalltalk code. Regards! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/light-table-live-programming-for-python-tp4632751p4632... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (6)
-
Camillo Bruni -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
Frank Shearar -
Igor Stasenko -
Marcus Denker -
Stéphane Ducasse