[Pharo-project] [OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo
Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like: create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) thanks mariano On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be>wrote:
On 25 Sep 2010, at 10:22, Jordi Delgado wrote:
Hi
I write just to let you know that we (the smalltalk.cat group) did an API to interact with a nice no-SQL database called FluidDB. It has been mainly the work of Sergio Garcia, but there is a little of some of us in the tests and the code: http://www.squeaksource.com/FluidDB.html To see what this FluidDB is: http://fluidinfo.com/
Bests,
Jordi
Sounds interesting, however the SqueakSource project has a 'Global: no access', so we can't see anything.
Sven
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2010/9/25 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like:
create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() )
You can find many topics about it in the net. This topic is really overheated :)
thanks
mariano
On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be> wrote:
On 25 Sep 2010, at 10:22, Jordi Delgado wrote:
Hi
I write just to let you know that we (the smalltalk.cat group) did an API to interact with a nice no-SQL database called FluidDB. It has been mainly the work of Sergio Garcia, but there is a little of some of us in the tests and the code: http://www.squeaksource.com/FluidDB.html To see what this FluidDB is: http://fluidinfo.com/
Bests,
Jordi
Sounds interesting, however the SqueakSource project has a 'Global: no access', so we can't see anything.
Sven
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
2010/9/25 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like:
create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() )
You can find many topics about it in the net.
Yes, but the net is full of idiots too. I mean...if I read the net then I should be programing in Java... I want to hear if someone of you, someone I know, had real experience with both alternatives. And why you would choose one over the other one. In addition, if someone has experience with a real app using Seaside or something like that.
This topic is really overheated :)
yes, I know :)
thanks
mariano
On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be> wrote:
On 25 Sep 2010, at 10:22, Jordi Delgado wrote:
Hi
I write just to let you know that we (the smalltalk.cat group) did an API to interact with a nice no-SQL database called FluidDB. It has
been
mainly the work of Sergio Garcia, but there is a little of some of us in the tests and the code: http://www.squeaksource.com/FluidDB.html To see what this FluidDB is: http://fluidinfo.com/
Bests,
Jordi
Sounds interesting, however the SqueakSource project has a 'Global: no access', so we can't see anything.
Sven
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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Not me. In fact, the reasons to do the FluidDB API are that we find it interesting (but not that we are not satisfied with traditional RDBMS), that the start-up is located in Barcelona and we are friends with the guys that created that start-up. If you want a more sophisticated argument of the No-SQL vs. RDBMS databases maybe someone else is able to offer good arguments. In any case, Google helps a lot in finding blogs and strong opinions concerning this discussion. Bests, Jordi
Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like:
create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() )
thanks
mariano
On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be>wrote:
On 25 Sep 2010, at 10:22, Jordi Delgado wrote:
Hi
I write just to let you know that we (the smalltalk.cat group) did an API to interact with a nice no-SQL database called FluidDB. It has been mainly the work of Sergio Garcia, but there is a little of some of us in the tests and the code: http://www.squeaksource.com/FluidDB.html To see what this FluidDB is: http://fluidinfo.com/
Bests,
Jordi
Sounds interesting, however the SqueakSource project has a 'Global: no access', so we can't see anything.
Sven
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"Mariano" == Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> writes:
Mariano> Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the Mariano> differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like: Mariano> create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) I've given a talk a few times about "forget the ORM". The slides are up on http://www.slideshare.net/RandalSchwartz/forget-the-orm The key thing that separates a lot of these newer databases is that you can't have all three of consistency, availability, and performance at once... you have to sacrifice something. Traditional SQL databases favored consistency over everything, but who cares if your blog page says "read the 6 comments on this item" for a couple of seconds when there are really 7 because one just got added. The new databases give options for higher availability or performance at the cost of consistency. Some, like Riak (interviewed at http://twit.tv/floss129), actually let you select on each request how consistent you want the results, thus controlling how fast you get the response. Thus, for the front page of a blog, you can say "give me a result that any 1 of the 3 replicas has", but when you finally drill into the comments, you say "give me a result that all 3 replicas agree on". Of course, these are all *eventually* consistent on the order of tens or hundreds of milliseconds, but by allowing "almost correct" results, things are a lot zippier. (It also works that way on write... you can say "come back when any 1 replica says it has it" or "come back only when all 3 replicas confirm write".) So, it's not so much that you get schemaless key/value store (although that's a frequent feature)... it's that these aren't traditional databases in a lot of ways. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
On 26.09.2010 23:46, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
"Mariano" == Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> writes:
Mariano> Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the Mariano> differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like:
Mariano> create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() )
I've given a talk a few times about "forget the ORM". The slides are up on http://www.slideshare.net/RandalSchwartz/forget-the-orm
The key thing that separates a lot of these newer databases is that you can't have all three of consistency, availability, and performance at once...
Uhm, the P in CAP does not stand for performance. For more information see [1] [1] http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6995033/ Cheers Philippe
I did some experiments with Cassandra (being that Thrift already produce valid Smalltalk code) and my pov is that nosql are born to solve the scalability problem in terms of horizontal growing, sacrificing some time in consistency. They are named "eventually" consistent, because the delays Randal commented. To some sort of applications, as sort of Facebook or Twitter, are a good option. My 0,02. 2010/9/26 Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>:
"Mariano" == Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> writes:
Mariano> Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the Mariano> differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like:
Mariano> create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() )
I've given a talk a few times about "forget the ORM". Â The slides are up on http://www.slideshare.net/RandalSchwartz/forget-the-orm
The key thing that separates a lot of these newer databases is that you can't have all three of consistency, availability, and performance at once... you have to sacrifice something. Â Traditional SQL databases favored consistency over everything, but who cares if your blog page says "read the 6 comments on this item" for a couple of seconds when there are really 7 because one just got added.
The new databases give options for higher availability or performance at the cost of consistency. Â Some, like Riak (interviewed at http://twit.tv/floss129), actually let you select on each request how consistent you want the results, thus controlling how fast you get the response. Â Thus, for the front page of a blog, you can say "give me a result that any 1 of the 3 replicas has", but when you finally drill into the comments, you say "give me a result that all 3 replicas agree on". Â Of course, these are all *eventually* consistent on the order of tens or hundreds of milliseconds, but by allowing "almost correct" results, things are a lot zippier. Â (It also works that way on write... you can say "come back when any 1 replica says it has it" or "come back only when all 3 replicas confirm write".)
So, it's not so much that you get schemaless key/value store (although that's a frequent feature)... it's that these aren't traditional databases in a lot of ways.
-- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
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participants (6)
-
Germán Arduino -
Igor Stasenko -
Jordi Delgado -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
merlyn＠stonehenge.com -
Philippe Marschall