About strange email related to smalltalkhub read-only on squeak-dev
Hi all This is the week-end and we worked super well yesterday during the sprint. Lot of good enhancements - Thanks a lot to all the participants. I not really happy to be forced to do it on a sunny saturday but Iâm doing it to clarify points. Esteban sent me this text that was posted on Squeak-Dev (I personally do not read squeak related forums because I have not the time and my focus is Pharo, its consortium, my team, my research and my family). We have to react because - We do not really at ***all** understand this email - We did not kicked anybody from our mailing-list from ages - so ron is lying. In the past we even had discussion with ron - so we do not really understand. May be we got problem to log on our mailing-lists. We have no idea because we are working and not looking at such things. - When we migrated smalltalkhub to readonly we payed attention to make sure that private projects stay private. We did not migrated smalltalkhub for fun. We MUST do it or it will be done by our infrastructure! - Now the cryptography packages are MIT and they are public anyway. So again we do not understand anything. We do not get why Ron contacted us because we announced the migration publicly way in advance and we will keep the Smalltalkhub frozen repo for at least next 5 years. I feel really sorry to hear such kind of email because we do not want to fight with anybody. Our goal is to make sure that people can work with Pharo and expand their business and knowledge. We are working hard to make sure that people can invent their future with Pharo and people that know us personally know that we are not lying. S
Hi all,
I've tried to work with the Pharo group but they keep kicking me out of their mailing list. I've already mentioned this a number of times to the Pharo group but nobody seems to care.
BOLD BOLD BOLD PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY BOLD BOLD BOLD
I am not a lawyer but we used very good lawyers to make the squeaksource repository a safe place to do cryptography work. If you are working on cryptography DO NOT POST your code anywhere except squeaksource. Especially if you are in the USA. The ONLY repository that is approved to host our cryptography code in the USA and therefore not subject to criminal violations is squeaksource. It is a CRIME in the USA to move code and make it available on the internet for everyone to download! It must be hosted on squeaksoruce.com or another location that is also properly registered.
IF YOU COPIED CRYPTOGRAPHY CODE TO ANOTHER REPOSITORY THAT IS NOT REGISTERED I would recommend you delete it immediately.
END BOLD!
Please feel free to post this to the Pharo mailing list because they apparently do not want to hear from me!
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France
Yes, let us coordinate what to respond. To me this doesn't even sound like Ron. Usually he is a rather quite and reasonable guy. Seems to be a lot of misunderstandings here (again). As I was the one copying the Cryptography package to github it concerns me a bit. I've been remembered now about yet another strange law suit in the US and indeed we need to raise a bit of awareness for this. So let's figure out what has to be done. Norbert
Am 30.05.2020 um 14:43 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Hi all
This is the week-end and we worked super well yesterday during the sprint. Lot of good enhancements - Thanks a lot to all the participants. I not really happy to be forced to do it on a sunny saturday but Iâm doing it to clarify points.
Esteban sent me this text that was posted on Squeak-Dev (I personally do not read squeak related forums because I have not the time and my focus is Pharo, its consortium, my team, my research and my family).
We have to react because - We do not really at ***all** understand this email - We did not kicked anybody from our mailing-list from ages - so ron is lying. In the past we even had discussion with ron - so we do not really understand. May be we got problem to log on our mailing-lists. We have no idea because we are working and not looking at such things. - When we migrated smalltalkhub to readonly we payed attention to make sure that private projects stay private. We did not migrated smalltalkhub for fun. We MUST do it or it will be done by our infrastructure! - Now the cryptography packages are MIT and they are public anyway. So again we do not understand anything.
We do not get why Ron contacted us because we announced the migration publicly way in advance and we will keep the Smalltalkhub frozen repo for at least next 5 years.
I feel really sorry to hear such kind of email because we do not want to fight with anybody. Our goal is to make sure that people can work with Pharo and expand their business and knowledge. We are working hard to make sure that people can invent their future with Pharo and people that know us personally know that we are not lying.
S
Hi all,
I've tried to work with the Pharo group but they keep kicking me out of their mailing list. I've already mentioned this a number of times to the Pharo group but nobody seems to care.
BOLD BOLD BOLD PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY BOLD BOLD BOLD
I am not a lawyer but we used very good lawyers to make the squeaksource repository a safe place to do cryptography work. If you are working on cryptography DO NOT POST your code anywhere except squeaksource. Especially if you are in the USA. The ONLY repository that is approved to host our cryptography code in the USA and therefore not subject to criminal violations is squeaksource. It is a CRIME in the USA to move code and make it available on the internet for everyone to download! It must be hosted on squeaksoruce.com <http://squeaksoruce.com/> or another location that is also properly registered.
IF YOU COPIED CRYPTOGRAPHY CODE TO ANOTHER REPOSITORY THAT IS NOT REGISTERED I would recommend you delete it immediately.
END BOLD!
Please feel free to post this to the Pharo mailing list because they apparently do not want to hear from me!
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France
Heâs on discord on squeak server. Maybe chatting with him in private could help resolve the misunderstanding. Cheers, Cedrick
Le 30 mai 2020 à 18:26, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> a écrit :
Yes, let us coordinate what to respond. To me this doesn't even sound like Ron. Usually he is a rather quite and reasonable guy. Seems to be a lot of misunderstandings here (again). As I was the one copying the Cryptography package to github it concerns me a bit. I've been remembered now about yet another strange law suit in the US and indeed we need to raise a bit of awareness for this.
So let's figure out what has to be done.
Norbert
Am 30.05.2020 um 14:43 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Hi all
This is the week-end and we worked super well yesterday during the sprint. Lot of good enhancements - Thanks a lot to all the participants. I not really happy to be forced to do it on a sunny saturday but Iâm doing it to clarify points.
Esteban sent me this text that was posted on Squeak-Dev (I personally do not read squeak related forums because I have not the time and my focus is Pharo, its consortium, my team, my research and my family).
We have to react because - We do not really at ***all** understand this email - We did not kicked anybody from our mailing-list from ages - so ron is lying. In the past we even had discussion with ron - so we do not really understand. May be we got problem to log on our mailing-lists. We have no idea because we are working and not looking at such things. - When we migrated smalltalkhub to readonly we payed attention to make sure that private projects stay private. We did not migrated smalltalkhub for fun. We MUST do it or it will be done by our infrastructure! - Now the cryptography packages are MIT and they are public anyway. So again we do not understand anything.
We do not get why Ron contacted us because we announced the migration publicly way in advance and we will keep the Smalltalkhub frozen repo for at least next 5 years.
I feel really sorry to hear such kind of email because we do not want to fight with anybody. Our goal is to make sure that people can work with Pharo and expand their business and knowledge. We are working hard to make sure that people can invent their future with Pharo and people that know us personally know that we are not lying.
S
Hi all,
I've tried to work with the Pharo group but they keep kicking me out of their mailing list. I've already mentioned this a number of times to the Pharo group but nobody seems to care.
BOLD BOLD BOLD PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY BOLD BOLD BOLD
I am not a lawyer but we used very good lawyers to make the squeaksource repository a safe place to do cryptography work. If you are working on cryptography DO NOT POST your code anywhere except squeaksource. Especially if you are in the USA. The ONLY repository that is approved to host our cryptography code in the USA and therefore not subject to criminal violations is squeaksource. It is a CRIME in the USA to move code and make it available on the internet for everyone to download! It must be hosted on squeaksoruce.com or another location that is also properly registered.
IF YOU COPIED CRYPTOGRAPHY CODE TO ANOTHER REPOSITORY THAT IS NOT REGISTERED I would recommend you delete it immediately.
END BOLD!
Please feel free to post this to the Pharo mailing list because they apparently do not want to hear from me!
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France
Hi Norbert, The EFF gives a nice overview of the US situation: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/08/us-export-controls-and-published-encry... Although you are not a US citizen, and don't live here, so I don't know how it could affect you. In the link above the EFF does say they provide free consultations about this topic so I'm sure someone there will clear things up for you. Paul NorbertHartl wrote
Yes, let us coordinate what to respond. To me this doesn't even sound like Ron. Usually he is a rather quite and reasonable guy. Seems to be a lot of misunderstandings here (again). As I was the one copying the Cryptography package to github it concerns me a bit. I've been remembered now about yet another strange law suit in the US and indeed we need to raise a bit of awareness for this.
So let's figure out what has to be done.
Norbert
Am 30.05.2020 um 14:43 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <
stephane.ducasse@
>:
Hi all
This is the week-end and we worked super well yesterday during the sprint. Lot of good enhancements - Thanks a lot to all the participants. I not really happy to be forced to do it on a sunny saturday but Iâm doing it to clarify points.
Esteban sent me this text that was posted on Squeak-Dev (I personally do not read squeak related forums because I have not the time and my focus is Pharo, its consortium, my team, my research and my family).
We have to react because - We do not really at ***all** understand this email - We did not kicked anybody from our mailing-list from ages - so ron is lying. In the past we even had discussion with ron - so we do not really understand. May be we got problem to log on our mailing-lists. We have no idea because we are working and not looking at such things. - When we migrated smalltalkhub to readonly we payed attention to make sure that private projects stay private. We did not migrated smalltalkhub for fun. We MUST do it or it will be done by our infrastructure! - Now the cryptography packages are MIT and they are public anyway. So again we do not understand anything.
We do not get why Ron contacted us because we announced the migration publicly way in advance and we will keep the Smalltalkhub frozen repo for at least next 5 years.
I feel really sorry to hear such kind of email because we do not want to fight with anybody. Our goal is to make sure that people can work with Pharo and expand their business and knowledge. We are working hard to make sure that people can invent their future with Pharo and people that know us personally know that we are not lying.
S
Hi all,
I've tried to work with the Pharo group but they keep kicking me out of their mailing list. I've already mentioned this a number of times to the Pharo group but nobody seems to care.
BOLD BOLD BOLD PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY BOLD BOLD BOLD
I am not a lawyer but we used very good lawyers to make the squeaksource repository a safe place to do cryptography work. If you are working on cryptography DO NOT POST your code anywhere except squeaksource. Especially if you are in the USA. The ONLY repository that is approved to host our cryptography code in the USA and therefore not subject to criminal violations is squeaksource. It is a CRIME in the USA to move code and make it available on the internet for everyone to download! It must be hosted on squeaksoruce.com <http://squeaksoruce.com/>; or another location that is also properly registered.
IF YOU COPIED CRYPTOGRAPHY CODE TO ANOTHER REPOSITORY THAT IS NOT REGISTERED I would recommend you delete it immediately.
END BOLD!
Please feel free to post this to the Pharo mailing list because they apparently do not want to hear from me!
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/>; / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/>; 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
Hi Paul, thanks for the info but I won't read it. I try to focus on things that matter. There are too many things that try to distract everyone from producing something helpful. Law suits are IMHO not of that kind. I would rather put some money on the table for someone building proper FFI to openssl. The Cryptography was a mess I cleaned a bit but I had also scenarios where the squeak code was not working properly. And there is no real reason to have a smalltalk implementation of crypto if we carry around openssl anyway (for iceberg and secure connects). PierceNg has an implementation that implements a subset of openssl. This implementation is modeled after the library so lots of class methods. I'd prefer to have something more object model like. So if you think you can implement this please contact me and tell me what you think how long it takes and how much it will cost to do at least the things we have now in Cryptography. I'm willing to collect money or pay it myself. Norbert
Am 31.05.2020 um 16:04 schrieb Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com>:
Hi Norbert,
The EFF gives a nice overview of the US situation: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/08/us-export-controls-and-published-encry... <https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/08/us-export-controls-and-published-encry...>
Although you are not a US citizen, and don't live here, so I don't know how it could affect you.
In the link above the EFF does say they provide free consultations about this topic so I'm sure someone there will clear things up for you.
Paul
NorbertHartl wrote
Yes, let us coordinate what to respond. To me this doesn't even sound like Ron. Usually he is a rather quite and reasonable guy. Seems to be a lot of misunderstandings here (again). As I was the one copying the Cryptography package to github it concerns me a bit. I've been remembered now about yet another strange law suit in the US and indeed we need to raise a bit of awareness for this.
So let's figure out what has to be done.
Norbert
Am 30.05.2020 um 14:43 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <
stephane.ducasse@
>:
Hi all
This is the week-end and we worked super well yesterday during the sprint. Lot of good enhancements - Thanks a lot to all the participants. I not really happy to be forced to do it on a sunny saturday but Iâm doing it to clarify points.
Esteban sent me this text that was posted on Squeak-Dev (I personally do not read squeak related forums because I have not the time and my focus is Pharo, its consortium, my team, my research and my family).
We have to react because - We do not really at ***all** understand this email - We did not kicked anybody from our mailing-list from ages - so ron is lying. In the past we even had discussion with ron - so we do not really understand. May be we got problem to log on our mailing-lists. We have no idea because we are working and not looking at such things. - When we migrated smalltalkhub to readonly we payed attention to make sure that private projects stay private. We did not migrated smalltalkhub for fun. We MUST do it or it will be done by our infrastructure! - Now the cryptography packages are MIT and they are public anyway. So again we do not understand anything.
We do not get why Ron contacted us because we announced the migration publicly way in advance and we will keep the Smalltalkhub frozen repo for at least next 5 years.
I feel really sorry to hear such kind of email because we do not want to fight with anybody. Our goal is to make sure that people can work with Pharo and expand their business and knowledge. We are working hard to make sure that people can invent their future with Pharo and people that know us personally know that we are not lying.
S
Hi all,
I've tried to work with the Pharo group but they keep kicking me out of their mailing list. I've already mentioned this a number of times to the Pharo group but nobody seems to care.
BOLD BOLD BOLD PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY BOLD BOLD BOLD
I am not a lawyer but we used very good lawyers to make the squeaksource repository a safe place to do cryptography work. If you are working on cryptography DO NOT POST your code anywhere except squeaksource. Especially if you are in the USA. The ONLY repository that is approved to host our cryptography code in the USA and therefore not subject to criminal violations is squeaksource. It is a CRIME in the USA to move code and make it available on the internet for everyone to download! It must be hosted on squeaksoruce.com <http://squeaksoruce.com/> <http://squeaksoruce.com/> <http://squeaksoruce.com/>>; or another location that is also properly registered.
IF YOU COPIED CRYPTOGRAPHY CODE TO ANOTHER REPOSITORY THAT IS NOT REGISTERED I would recommend you delete it immediately.
END BOLD!
Please feel free to post this to the Pharo mailing list because they apparently do not want to hear from me!
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/>>; / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> <http://www.pharo.org/> <http://www.pharo.org/>>; 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html>
On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:18 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Hi Paul,
thanks for the info but I won't read it. I try to focus on things that matter. There are too many things that try to distract everyone from producing something helpful. Law suits are IMHO not of that kind.
I would rather put some money on the table for someone building proper FFI to openssl. The Cryptography was a mess I cleaned a bit but I had also scenarios where the squeak code was not working properly. And there is no real reason to have a smalltalk implementation of crypto if we carry around openssl anyway (for iceberg and secure connects).
PierceNg has an implementation that implements a subset of openssl. This implementation is modeled after the library so lots of class methods. I'd prefer to have something more object model like.
So if you think you can implement this please contact me and tell me what you think how long it takes and how much it will cost to do at least the things we have now in Cryptography. I'm willing to collect money or pay it myself.
I second this. VA Smalltalk included a complete FFI wrapper of OpenSSL in VAST 8.6.2 (2015) and it was one of the best decisions ever. -- Mariano Martinez Peck Email: marianopeck@gmail.com Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/
On Tue, Jun 02, 2020 at 11:17:30AM +0200, Norbert Hartl wrote:
PierceNg has an implementation that implements a subset of openssl. This implementation is modeled after the library so lots of class methods. I'd prefer to have something more object model like.
A very small subset currently, as my original need was to create an X509 request in code. PRs welcome. https://github.com/PierceNg/OpenSSL-Pharo Pierce
Am 04.06.2020 um 02:44 schrieb Pierce Ng <pierce@samadhiweb.com>:
On Tue, Jun 02, 2020 at 11:17:30AM +0200, Norbert Hartl wrote:
PierceNg has an implementation that implements a subset of openssl. This implementation is modeled after the library so lots of class methods. I'd prefer to have something more object model like.
A very small subset currently, as my original need was to create an X509 request in code. PRs welcome.
If it is a small subset it might be feasible to talk about the approach taken. Norbert
On Thu, Jun 04, 2020 at 10:31:09AM +0200, Norbert Hartl wrote:
Am 04.06.2020 um 02:44 schrieb Pierce Ng <pierce@samadhiweb.com>: On Tue, Jun 02, 2020 at 11:17:30AM +0200, Norbert Hartl wrote:
PierceNg has an implementation that implements a subset of openssl. This implementation is modeled after the library so lots of class methods. I'd prefer to have something more object model like.
A very small subset currently, as my original need was to create an X509 request in code. PRs welcome.
If it is a small subset it might be feasible to talk about the approach taken.
Sure. I don't see too many misplaced class methods myself. I've just loaded the package into a fresh image for a spin. My self-built VM uses OpenSSL 1.1.1 (instead of OpenSSL 1.0.x in the prebuilt VMs) and there are C API changes between those two OpenSSL versions that break many tests, basic things like XXX_create becoming XXX_new, XXX_init becoming XXX_reset etc. So I've created branches openssl_1_1 and openssl_1_0 that will match the versions used by Pharo. Pierce
participants (6)
-
Cédrick Béler -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Norbert Hartl -
Paul DeBruicker -
Pierce Ng -
Stéphane Ducasse