[Pharo-project] A facility to launch external processes from Pharo should be provided by default on all platforms
Hello everyone, I've read several threads about people having problems to launch external processes from Pharo. The solutions are well known: either by using ProcessWrapper, or by using the plugin OSProcess. But the former is Win32 only, and the latter is supposedly cross platform, but is only included by default on Linux and OS X... On Win32, the plugin must be built by hand with the Squeak VM. For the average user, this is a little bit puzzling. Unless things operates in a closed sandbox (no files, no sockets, ...), such basic operation should be included by default and usable in a cross platform way (even if we are living in an image, no?). For example, here is my use case: I have several command line tools to automate tasks on my machine. I intended to learn Pharo/Smalltalk by building a graphical front-end to these tools (with Morphic) as well as a Web front-end (with Seaside). But the "system()" message is missing :) Gabriel. Note: Maybe it is more a SqueakVM issue. If so, I will post my request on that mailing list.
Thanks gabriel. Your mail is important because we should get much much better on that site so please push. We are working (but nothing is ready for public or even private try) on making sure that we can use pharo as a scripting language and the connection with the OS is important. I really think that we should get much better. I hope that the VM will improve from that part. We are really busy from the image side.... If more people would help we could do so much more exciting things. Stef On Jul 19, 2010, at 9:20 PM, Gabriel Cuvillier wrote:
Hello everyone,
I've read several threads about people having problems to launch external processes from Pharo.
The solutions are well known: either by using ProcessWrapper, or by using the plugin OSProcess. But the former is Win32 only, and the latter is supposedly cross platform, but is only included by default on Linux and OS X... On Win32, the plugin must be built by hand with the Squeak VM.
For the average user, this is a little bit puzzling. Unless things operates in a closed sandbox (no files, no sockets, ...), such basic operation should be included by default and usable in a cross platform way (even if we are living in an image, no?).
For example, here is my use case: I have several command line tools to automate tasks on my machine. I intended to learn Pharo/Smalltalk by building a graphical front-end to these tools (with Morphic) as well as a Web front-end (with Seaside). But the "system()" message is missing :)
Gabriel.
Note: Maybe it is more a SqueakVM issue. If so, I will post my request on that mailing list.
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+10 In interest of full disclosure, some have argued that FFI poses a security risk; one nice solution that was proposed is a command line option to disable it. But making people work hard to connect to the outside world buys us nothing and should indeed be corrected. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Gabriel Cuvillier Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 2:20 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] A facility to launch external processes from Pharo should be provided by default on all platforms Hello everyone, I've read several threads about people having problems to launch external processes from Pharo. The solutions are well known: either by using ProcessWrapper, or by using the plugin OSProcess. But the former is Win32 only, and the latter is supposedly cross platform, but is only included by default on Linux and OS X... On Win32, the plugin must be built by hand with the Squeak VM. For the average user, this is a little bit puzzling. Unless things operates in a closed sandbox (no files, no sockets, ...), such basic operation should be included by default and usable in a cross platform way (even if we are living in an image, no?). For example, here is my use case: I have several command line tools to automate tasks on my machine. I intended to learn Pharo/Smalltalk by building a graphical front-end to these tools (with Morphic) as well as a Web front-end (with Seaside). But the "system()" message is missing :) Gabriel. Note: Maybe it is more a SqueakVM issue. If so, I will post my request on that mailing list. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Gabriel Cuvillier wrote:
Hello everyone,
I've read several threads about people having problems to launch external processes from Pharo.
The solutions are well known: either by using ProcessWrapper, or by using the plugin OSProcess. But the former is Win32 only, and the latter is supposedly cross platform, but is only included by default on Linux and OS X... On Win32, the plugin must be built by hand with the Squeak VM.
AFAIK the Win32OSProcessPlugin is included with the SqueakVM for windows. The only reason I wrote ProcessWrapper is that OSProcess doesn't support pipes on windows, so you can't use stdin, stdout or stderr.
For the average user, this is a little bit puzzling. Unless things operates in a closed sandbox (no files, no sockets, ...), such basic operation should be included by default and usable in a cross platform way (even if we are living in an image, no?).
For example, here is my use case: I have several command line tools to automate tasks on my machine. I intended to learn Pharo/Smalltalk by building a graphical front-end to these tools (with Morphic) as well as a Web front-end (with Seaside). But the "system()" message is missing :)
Gabriel.
Note: Maybe it is more a SqueakVM issue. If so, I will post my request on that mailing list.
Pharo uses the SqueakVM. Levente
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Hi Levente, at Cadence I extended the plugin so we could connect to Subversion via the plugin because Newspeak at one point used a Subversion backend to Monticello for source-code control. If you're interested I have the plugin and can dig up the image-side code. On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves@elte.hu> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Gabriel Cuvillier wrote:
Hello everyone,
I've read several threads about people having problems to launch external processes from Pharo.
The solutions are well known: either by using ProcessWrapper, or by using the plugin OSProcess. But the former is Win32 only, and the latter is supposedly cross platform, but is only included by default on Linux and OS X... On Win32, the plugin must be built by hand with the Squeak VM.
AFAIK the Win32OSProcessPlugin is included with the SqueakVM for windows. The only reason I wrote ProcessWrapper is that OSProcess doesn't support pipes on windows, so you can't use stdin, stdout or stderr.
For the average user, this is a little bit puzzling. Unless things operates in a closed sandbox (no files, no sockets, ...), such basic operation should be included by default and usable in a cross platform way (even if we are living in an image, no?).
For example, here is my use case: I have several command line tools to automate tasks on my machine. I intended to learn Pharo/Smalltalk by building a graphical front-end to these tools (with Morphic) as well as a Web front-end (with Seaside). But the "system()" message is missing :)
Gabriel.
Note: Maybe it is more a SqueakVM issue. If so, I will post my request on that mailing list.
Pharo uses the SqueakVM.
Levente
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On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Eliot Miranda wrote:
Hi Levente,
at Cadence I extended the plugin so we could connect to Subversion via the plugin because Newspeak at one point used a Subversion backend to Monticello for source-code control. If you're interested I have the plugin and can dig up the image-side code.
Does that mean that OSProcess can be used on all platforms? If yes, then it would be great. Levente
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves@elte.hu> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Gabriel Cuvillier wrote:
Hello everyone,
I've read several threads about people having problems to launch external processes from Pharo.
The solutions are well known: either by using ProcessWrapper, or by using the plugin OSProcess. But the former is Win32 only, and the latter is supposedly cross platform, but is only included by default on Linux and OS X... On Win32, the plugin must be built by hand with the Squeak VM.
AFAIK the Win32OSProcessPlugin is included with the SqueakVM for windows. The only reason I wrote ProcessWrapper is that OSProcess doesn't support pipes on windows, so you can't use stdin, stdout or stderr.
For the average user, this is a little bit puzzling. Unless things operates in a closed sandbox (no files, no sockets, ...), such basic operation should be included by default and usable in a cross platform way (even if we are living in an image, no?).
For example, here is my use case: I have several command line tools to automate tasks on my machine. I intended to learn Pharo/Smalltalk by building a graphical front-end to these tools (with Morphic) as well as a Web front-end (with Seaside). But the "system()" message is missing :)
Gabriel.
Note: Maybe it is more a SqueakVM issue. If so, I will post my request on that mailing list.
Pharo uses the SqueakVM.
Levente
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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On Jul 19, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Eliot Miranda wrote:
Hi Levente,
at Cadence I extended the plugin so we could connect to Subversion via the plugin because Newspeak at one point used a Subversion backend to Monticello for source-code control. If you're interested I have the plugin and can dig up the image-side code.
Does that mean that OSProcess can be used on all platforms? If yes, then it would be great.
that would be gorgeous.
Levente
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves@elte.hu> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Gabriel Cuvillier wrote:
Hello everyone,
I've read several threads about people having problems to launch external processes from Pharo.
The solutions are well known: either by using ProcessWrapper, or by using the plugin OSProcess. But the former is Win32 only, and the latter is supposedly cross platform, but is only included by default on Linux and OS X... On Win32, the plugin must be built by hand with the Squeak VM.
AFAIK the Win32OSProcessPlugin is included with the SqueakVM for windows. The only reason I wrote ProcessWrapper is that OSProcess doesn't support pipes on windows, so you can't use stdin, stdout or stderr.
For the average user, this is a little bit puzzling. Unless things operates in a closed sandbox (no files, no sockets, ...), such basic operation should be included by default and usable in a cross platform way (even if we are living in an image, no?).
For example, here is my use case: I have several command line tools to automate tasks on my machine. I intended to learn Pharo/Smalltalk by building a graphical front-end to these tools (with Morphic) as well as a Web front-end (with Seaside). But the "system()" message is missing :)
Gabriel.
Note: Maybe it is more a SqueakVM issue. If so, I will post my request on that mailing list.
Pharo uses the SqueakVM.
Levente
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participants (5)
-
Eliot Miranda -
Gabriel Cuvillier -
Levente Uzonyi -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Stéphane Ducasse