[Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL
hi, im trying to work with the AlienOpenGL library, in ubuntu, but i cant get even the test to run. it keeps saying i dont have a basic library but i dont have a clue how to get it. i have been all day ready post about it and i simply cant make it. anyone can do a stupid proof guide? Ricardo -- lets reign all together
Not that you are wrong, but how did you choose AlienOpenGL over CroquetGL? IIRC, there is also a 3D project associated with NativeBoost. The latter lives here: http://code.google.com/p/nativeboost/ Just curious. I was originally very disappointed that Croquet was an all-or-nothing proposition. Just studying the code, it had a very nice way of manipulating 3D objects (more than just drawing triangles), but it was part of the 3D operating system, which was not something I could put in front of the end users I had in mind. Here's hoping the nice code is moving toward something that we can use to open 3D views from inside of Pharo. On to your debugging problem, can you tell what Pharo is trying to load? I have resorted to building my own VM to get a look at exactly what paths are used to load libraries. Even a relevant #moduleName return value might help identify the required library. You could be experiencing problems because the library is not present, or because FFI is looking in the wrong place. The Linux VM does not easily give up its secrets. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Ricardo Jacas [ricardo.jacas@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:44 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL hi, im trying to work with the AlienOpenGL library, in ubuntu, but i cant get even the test to run. it keeps saying i dont have a basic library but i dont have a clue how to get it. i have been all day ready post about it and i simply cant make it. anyone can do a stupid proof guide? Ricardo -- lets reign all together
Not that you are wrong, but how did you choose AlienOpenGL over CroquetGL?
We're just looking for something that works. Is there currently a solution to make 3d with Pharo 1.2 and that works with windows, linux and mac? The idea is to have a 3d version of Mondrian. No need of fancy 3d effect so far. Cheers, Alexandre
IIRC, there is also a 3D project associated with NativeBoost. The latter lives here:
http://code.google.com/p/nativeboost/
Just curious.
I was originally very disappointed that Croquet was an all-or-nothing proposition. Just studying the code, it had a very nice way of manipulating 3D objects (more than just drawing triangles), but it was part of the 3D operating system, which was not something I could put in front of the end users I had in mind. Here's hoping the nice code is moving toward something that we can use to open 3D views from inside of Pharo.
On to your debugging problem, can you tell what Pharo is trying to load? I have resorted to building my own VM to get a look at exactly what paths are used to load libraries. Even a relevant #moduleName return value might help identify the required library. You could be experiencing problems because the library is not present, or because FFI is looking in the wrong place. The Linux VM does not easily give up its secrets.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Ricardo Jacas [ricardo.jacas@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:44 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL
hi, im trying to work with the AlienOpenGL library, in ubuntu, but i cant get even the test to run. it keeps saying i dont have a basic library but i dont have a clue how to get it.
i have been all day ready post about it and i simply cant make it.
anyone can do a stupid proof guide?
Ricardo
-- lets reign all together
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Not that you are wrong, but how did you choose AlienOpenGL over CroquetGL?
We're just looking for something that works. Is there currently a solution to make 3d with Pharo 1.2 and that works with windows, linux and mac? The idea is to have a 3d version of Mondrian. No need of fancy 3d effect so far. Cheers, Alexandre
IIRC, there is also a 3D project associated with NativeBoost. The latter lives here:
http://code.google.com/p/nativeboost/
Just curious.
I was originally very disappointed that Croquet was an all-or-nothing proposition. Just studying the code, it had a very nice way of manipulating 3D objects (more than just drawing triangles), but it was part of the 3D operating system, which was not something I could put in front of the end users I had in mind. Here's hoping the nice code is moving toward something that we can use to open 3D views from inside of Pharo.
On to your debugging problem, can you tell what Pharo is trying to load? I have resorted to building my own VM to get a look at exactly what paths are used to load libraries. Even a relevant #moduleName return value might help identify the required library. You could be experiencing problems because the library is not present, or because FFI is looking in the wrong place. The Linux VM does not easily give up its secrets.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Ricardo Jacas [ricardo.jacas@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:44 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL
hi, im trying to work with the AlienOpenGL library, in ubuntu, but i cant get even the test to run. it keeps saying i dont have a basic library but i dont have a clue how to get it.
i have been all day ready post about it and i simply cant make it.
anyone can do a stupid proof guide?
Ricardo
-- lets reign all together
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Alexandre, If I knew what worked, I'd be making a recommendation :) As it is, I can perhaps help you work through the debugging process. As I said, you could indeed be missing a needed library, there could be dependencies missing that make a .so unable to load, a .so could be just plain broken (I've seen that once or twice), or the vm could be looking in the wrong place and saying absolutely nothing about it. If you can post more about what is going wrong and how, we might be able to sort it out, hopefully w/o having to hack the vm (but no promises). My 3D goals would generally be to create a view/world, add a light source or two and a camera, and to load a few meshes onto some type of retained mode objects and start prodding them in simple ways. Croquet's code for that looked like it was perfect for what I have in mind, but the 3D needs to go in the software, not the other way around. Scouting reports would be most welcome. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre@bergel.eu] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:22 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL
Not that you are wrong, but how did you choose AlienOpenGL over CroquetGL?
We're just looking for something that works. Is there currently a solution to make 3d with Pharo 1.2 and that works with windows, linux and mac? The idea is to have a 3d version of Mondrian. No need of fancy 3d effect so far. Cheers, Alexandre
I feel that we will take the easiest way: implement a small 3d engine. This is about 100 lines of code for something simple (what we need in fact). Ricardo and Patricio spent several days having something that run with AlienOpenGL, and the technical problems are numerous (Cog vs Standard, Linux, ...) We will let you know. Cheers, Alexandre
If I knew what worked, I'd be making a recommendation :) As it is, I can perhaps help you work through the debugging process. As I said, you could indeed be missing a needed library, there could be dependencies missing that make a .so unable to load, a .so could be just plain broken (I've seen that once or twice), or the vm could be looking in the wrong place and saying absolutely nothing about it. If you can post more about what is going wrong and how, we might be able to sort it out, hopefully w/o having to hack the vm (but no promises).
My 3D goals would generally be to create a view/world, add a light source or two and a camera, and to load a few meshes onto some type of retained mode objects and start prodding them in simple ways. Croquet's code for that looked like it was perfect for what I have in mind, but the 3D needs to go in the software, not the other way around. Scouting reports would be most welcome.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre@bergel.eu] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:22 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL
Not that you are wrong, but how did you choose AlienOpenGL over CroquetGL?
We're just looking for something that works. Is there currently a solution to make 3d with Pharo 1.2 and that works with windows, linux and mac? The idea is to have a 3d version of Mondrian. No need of fancy 3d effect so far.
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Lumeire fulfills the specified goals: creating a world (scene) + cameras + light sources + 3d objects. Lumiere currently uses AlienOpenGL to comunicate with OpenGl, it could easily use OpenGL FFI as well as the underlying glue code to the rendering library. So resuming: 1) Lumiere abstractions over matrixes and OGL. 2) Rendering engined wrapper: AlienOpenGL (unmaintaned currently), OpenGL FFI , NativeBoost OpenGL (only windows for now, until someone compiles native boost vm for other OS). If someone needs the good abstractions of Lumiere, i could give some pointers on were to remove the AlienOpenGL dependency and "plug" the preferred engine. Fernando On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu> wrote:
I feel that we will take the easiest way: implement a small 3d engine. This is about 100 lines of code for something simple (what we need in fact). Ricardo and Patricio spent several days having something that run with AlienOpenGL, and the technical problems are numerous (Cog vs Standard, Linux, ...)
We will let you know.
Cheers, Alexandre
If I knew what worked, I'd be making a recommendation :) Â As it is, I can perhaps help you work through the debugging process. Â As I said, you could indeed be missing a needed library, there could be dependencies missing that make a .so unable to load, a .so could be just plain broken (I've seen that once or twice), or the vm could be looking in the wrong place and saying absolutely nothing about it. Â If you can post more about what is going wrong and how, we might be able to sort it out, hopefully w/o having to hack the vm (but no promises).
My 3D goals would generally be to create a view/world, add a light source or two and a camera, and to load a few meshes onto some type of retained mode objects and start prodding them in simple ways. Â Croquet's code for that looked like it was perfect for what I have in mind, but the 3D needs to go in the software, not the other way around. Â Scouting reports would be most welcome.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre@bergel.eu] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:22 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL
Not that you are wrong, but how did you choose AlienOpenGL over CroquetGL?
We're just looking for something that works. Is there currently a solution to make 3d with Pharo 1.2 and that works with windows, linux and mac? The idea is to have a 3d version of Mondrian. No need of fancy 3d effect so far.
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Thanks Fernando for offering your help. We are still at the phase to decide what techno to use. Lumiere has indeed many good things (even though I do not agree with every design decision made in it :-) Cheers, Alexandre On 21 Jan 2011, at 04:21, Fernando Olivero wrote:
Lumeire fulfills the specified goals: creating a world (scene) + cameras + light sources + 3d objects.
Lumiere currently uses AlienOpenGL to comunicate with OpenGl, it could easily use OpenGL FFI as well as the underlying glue code to the rendering library.
So resuming:
1) Lumiere abstractions over matrixes and OGL.
2) Rendering engined wrapper: AlienOpenGL (unmaintaned currently), OpenGL FFI , NativeBoost OpenGL (only windows for now, until someone compiles native boost vm for other OS).
If someone needs the good abstractions of Lumiere, i could give some pointers on were to remove the AlienOpenGL dependency and "plug" the preferred engine.
Fernando
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu> wrote:
I feel that we will take the easiest way: implement a small 3d engine. This is about 100 lines of code for something simple (what we need in fact). Ricardo and Patricio spent several days having something that run with AlienOpenGL, and the technical problems are numerous (Cog vs Standard, Linux, ...)
We will let you know.
Cheers, Alexandre
If I knew what worked, I'd be making a recommendation :) As it is, I can perhaps help you work through the debugging process. As I said, you could indeed be missing a needed library, there could be dependencies missing that make a .so unable to load, a .so could be just plain broken (I've seen that once or twice), or the vm could be looking in the wrong place and saying absolutely nothing about it. If you can post more about what is going wrong and how, we might be able to sort it out, hopefully w/o having to hack the vm (but no promises).
My 3D goals would generally be to create a view/world, add a light source or two and a camera, and to load a few meshes onto some type of retained mode objects and start prodding them in simple ways. Croquet's code for that looked like it was perfect for what I have in mind, but the 3D needs to go in the software, not the other way around. Scouting reports would be most welcome.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre@bergel.eu] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:22 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL
Not that you are wrong, but how did you choose AlienOpenGL over CroquetGL?
We're just looking for something that works. Is there currently a solution to make 3d with Pharo 1.2 and that works with windows, linux and mac? The idea is to have a 3d version of Mondrian. No need of fancy 3d effect so far.
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Fernando, The goals are mix of what Alexandre is trying to do short term and what I want to be able to do eventually. It's great to know that you have addressed them. One thing we appear to have in common is Linux, which is why I jumped into this - I've had to debug several non-loading libraries and have learned some tricks that might help. A related thread: http://forum.world.st/OpenGL-in-pharo-td1475316.html Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Fernando Olivero [fernando.olivero@usi.ch] Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 2:21 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL Lumeire fulfills the specified goals: creating a world (scene) + cameras + light sources + 3d objects. Lumiere currently uses AlienOpenGL to comunicate with OpenGl, it could easily use OpenGL FFI as well as the underlying glue code to the rendering library. So resuming: 1) Lumiere abstractions over matrixes and OGL. 2) Rendering engined wrapper: AlienOpenGL (unmaintaned currently), OpenGL FFI , NativeBoost OpenGL (only windows for now, until someone compiles native boost vm for other OS). If someone needs the good abstractions of Lumiere, i could give some pointers on were to remove the AlienOpenGL dependency and "plug" the preferred engine. Fernando On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu> wrote:
I feel that we will take the easiest way: implement a small 3d engine. This is about 100 lines of code for something simple (what we need in fact). Ricardo and Patricio spent several days having something that run with AlienOpenGL, and the technical problems are numerous (Cog vs Standard, Linux, ...)
We will let you know.
Cheers, Alexandre
If I knew what worked, I'd be making a recommendation :) As it is, I can perhaps help you work through the debugging process. As I said, you could indeed be missing a needed library, there could be dependencies missing that make a .so unable to load, a .so could be just plain broken (I've seen that once or twice), or the vm could be looking in the wrong place and saying absolutely nothing about it. If you can post more about what is going wrong and how, we might be able to sort it out, hopefully w/o having to hack the vm (but no promises).
My 3D goals would generally be to create a view/world, add a light source or two and a camera, and to load a few meshes onto some type of retained mode objects and start prodding them in simple ways. Croquet's code for that looked like it was perfect for what I have in mind, but the 3D needs to go in the software, not the other way around. Scouting reports would be most welcome.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre@bergel.eu] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:22 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Using AlienOpenGL
Not that you are wrong, but how did you choose AlienOpenGL over CroquetGL?
We're just looking for something that works. Is there currently a solution to make 3d with Pharo 1.2 and that works with windows, linux and mac? The idea is to have a 3d version of Mondrian. No need of fancy 3d effect so far.
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
participants (4)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Fernando Olivero -
Ricardo Jacas -
Schwab,Wilhelm K