Re: [Pharo-project] What about a little rename in MouseEvent?
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes. Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it. For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
Sure, we got the right to change historical code. But beware, naming actions with physical button positioncould be misleading... ... it does not take into account the logical indirection. We could as well use intention revealing names like selectButton operateButton haloButton... .. Err, no more halo in Pharo, these names are prematurely frozen and don't take future evolutions into account. Oh, we need some more neutral naming scheme, but for sure, something less colorfull that these childish st-80 and e toys. I suggest you use whiteButton greyButton blackButton, or maybe paleBlueButton, lightCyanButton to be more inline with an aqua theme ;) Nicolas 2011/1/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes. Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it. For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse. Marcus
-- Marcus Denker  -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
On 24 Jan 2011, at 08:25, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes.
Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it.
For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse.
Marcus
#select, #menu and #extra ? Then again, touch UI is different again. Sven
I agree with the original proposal, because MouseEvents denote the physical action performed by the user on the hardware, which evidently has a left, a middle and a right section. Regardless of the action Morphic associates with each click, #select, #menu, etc... Fernando On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2011, at 08:25, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes.
Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it.
For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse.
   Marcus
#select, #menu and #extra ?
Then again, touch UI is different again.
Sven
And if you swap mouse buttons, you are replacing left button by right button ;). I open a ticket. On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch>wrote:
I agree with the original proposal, because MouseEvents denote the physical action performed by the user on the hardware, which evidently has a left, a middle and a right section. Regardless of the action Morphic associates with each click, #select, #menu, etc...
Fernando
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2011, at 08:25, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed
messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes.
Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it.
For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse.
Marcus
#select, #menu and #extra ?
Then again, touch UI is different again.
Sven
Sorry Fernando, The question is can we remove a level of indirection ? And to answer this, you have to consider these other questions: - what was the purpose of this level of indirection ? - do we still need it or not ? I don't feel like your yes/no answer is satisfying, please give more ellaborated arguments. Nicolas 2011/1/24 Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch>:
I agree with the original proposal, because MouseEvents denote the physical action performed by the user on the hardware, which evidently has a left, a middle and a right section. Regardless of the action Morphic associates with each click, #select, #menu, etc...
Fernando
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2011, at 08:25, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes.
Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it.
For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse.
   Marcus
#select, #menu and #extra ?
Then again, touch UI is different again.
Sven
Here is a squeak wiki post about colored mouse buttons: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/897 And the part that says "The Smalltalk image from which Squeak is derived was designed to run with a three-button mouse on an Alto or Dorado computer. These buttons were known as the Red button<http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1904>, Yellow button <http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1905>, and Blue button<http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1906>, and some mice on the Parc computers really had buttons of these colors." allows me to think that originally, the buttons were named just like the hardware :). So calling them left, right and middle... Is right the same but more meaningful. Another classification there puts them as: red:primaryyellow:secondaryblue:meta, tertiary So we could call them primary, secondary and (tertiary or meta). I like it :). Cheers, Guille On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Nicolas Cellier < nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry Fernando, The question is can we remove a level of indirection ? And to answer this, you have to consider these other questions: - what was the purpose of this level of indirection ? - do we still need it or not ? I don't feel like your yes/no answer is satisfying, please give more ellaborated arguments.
Nicolas
2011/1/24 Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch>:
I agree with the original proposal, because MouseEvents denote the physical action performed by the user on the hardware, which evidently has a left, a middle and a right section. Regardless of the action Morphic associates with each click, #select, #menu, etc...
Fernando
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2011, at 08:25, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed
messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes.
Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it.
For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse.
Marcus
#select, #menu and #extra ?
Then again, touch UI is different again.
Sven
BTW, "Meta" is another name I would like to get rid of :P. Guille On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito@gmail.com
wrote:
Here is a squeak wiki post about colored mouse buttons: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/897
And the part that says "The Smalltalk image from which Squeak is derived was designed to run with a three-button mouse on an Alto or Dorado computer. These buttons were known as the Red button<http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1904>, Yellow button <http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1905>, and Blue button<http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1906>, and some mice on the Parc computers really had buttons of these colors." allows me to think that originally, the buttons were named just like the hardware :).
So calling them left, right and middle... Is right the same but more meaningful.
Another classification there puts them as:
red:primaryyellow:secondaryblue:meta, tertiary
So we could call them primary, secondary and (tertiary or meta). I like it :).
Cheers, Guille
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Nicolas Cellier < nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry Fernando, The question is can we remove a level of indirection ? And to answer this, you have to consider these other questions: - what was the purpose of this level of indirection ? - do we still need it or not ? I don't feel like your yes/no answer is satisfying, please give more ellaborated arguments.
Nicolas
2011/1/24 Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch>:
I agree with the original proposal, because MouseEvents denote the physical action performed by the user on the hardware, which evidently has a left, a middle and a right section. Regardless of the action Morphic associates with each click, #select, #menu, etc...
Fernando
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2011, at 08:25, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed
messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes.
Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it.
For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse.
Marcus
#select, #menu and #extra ?
Then again, touch UI is different again.
Sven
+1 there are another issue: future is coming and soon we will have more than three buttons (in fact, if apple guys are correct, we will have "as many buttons as we want" :P) El 24/01/2011, a las 8:41a.m., Guillermo Polito escribió:
Here is a squeak wiki post about colored mouse buttons: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/897
And the part that says "The Smalltalk image from which Squeak is derived was designed to run with a three-button mouse on an Alto or Dorado computer. These buttons were known as the Red button, Yellow button, and Blue button, and some mice on the Parc computers really had buttons of these colors." allows me to think that originally, the buttons were named just like the hardware :).
So calling them left, right and middle... Is right the same but more meaningful.
Another classification there puts them as:
red:primary yellow:secondary blue:meta, tertiary
So we could call them primary, secondary and (tertiary or meta). I like it :).
Cheers, Guille
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com> wrote: Sorry Fernando, The question is can we remove a level of indirection ? And to answer this, you have to consider these other questions: - what was the purpose of this level of indirection ? - do we still need it or not ? I don't feel like your yes/no answer is satisfying, please give more ellaborated arguments.
Nicolas
2011/1/24 Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch>:
I agree with the original proposal, because MouseEvents denote the physical action performed by the user on the hardware, which evidently has a left, a middle and a right section. Regardless of the action Morphic associates with each click, #select, #menu, etc...
Fernando
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@beta9.be> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2011, at 08:25, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes.
Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it.
For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse.
Marcus
#select, #menu and #extra ?
Then again, touch UI is different again.
Sven
2011/1/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes. Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it. For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse. Marcus
" The original device connected to the Alto and Dorado machines had 3 buttons labelled "yellow", "red" and "blue" "
From http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/wolfgang.kreutzer/cosc205/smalltalk1.html
-- Marcus Denker  -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
2011/1/24 Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com>:
2011/1/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages.
Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes. Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it. For me, after 13 years of Squeak and later Pharo, I still have no clue which color means what... they have no meaning. There is no green button on my mouse. Marcus
" The original device connected to the Alto and Dorado machines had 3 buttons labelled "yellow", "red" and "blue" " From http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/wolfgang.kreutzer/cosc205/smalltalk1.html
BTW I guess colors were choosen by someone with background in color psychology, there are *a lot* studies about color symbolism. Hernán
Em 24/01/2011 05:25, Marcus Denker < marcus.denker@inria.fr > escreveu: On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:39 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote:
I hate yellowButtonPressed and redButtonPressed and blueButtonPressed messages. Why not lefClick, rightClick and "middleClick"?
Yes. Back in the days, the color buttons where "holy cows". You just could not even suggest to change it.
On the other hand, as the buttons of mice can be reassigned, the 'names' "right" and "left" could become ambiguous... my 0.019999... -- Cesar Rabak
participants (8)
-
csrabak＠bol.com.br -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Fernando Olivero -
Guillermo Polito -
Hernán Morales Durand -
Marcus Denker -
Nicolas Cellier -
Sven Van Caekenberghe