About doing things late (1 month before release)
Hi, We *really* need to take care.
From what I see, people under-estimate just how much everything has consequences⦠*every*thing that we do will need multiple iterations. Please make sure to take that into account when pushing for something to be added to Pharo3 instead of waiting for Pharo4.
Marcus
yes people. *please* stop cleaning, enhancing, and modifying the image in any way but the bugfixing need to make it run *as is*. Of course we can discuss everything, but any change will be, if so, in Pharo 4, not now (and Pharo 4 should start in one and a half month, so you can wait). cheers, Esteban On 24 Jan 2014, at 10:43, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi,
We *really* need to take care.
From what I see, people under-estimate just how much everything has consequences⦠*every*thing that we do will need multiple iterations. Please make sure to take that into account when pushing for something to be added to Pharo3 instead of waiting for Pharo4.
Marcus
EstebanLM wrote
*please* stop cleaning, enhancing, and modifying the image in any way
Sorry :) I got burned by Morphic in a personal project and went on a rabid cleaning. In all fairness, I tagged some of those "later" :-P ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-doing-things-late-1-month-before-release-tp47389... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I highly doubt of the usability of Nautilus even in one month and a half ... Ben On 24 Jan 2014, at 09:10, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
EstebanLM wrote
*please* stop cleaning, enhancing, and modifying the image in any way
Sorry :) I got burned by Morphic in a personal project and went on a rabid cleaning. In all fairness, I tagged some of those "later" :-P
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-doing-things-late-1-month-before-release-tp47389... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 24 Jan 2014, at 13:11, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
EstebanLM wrote
*please* stop cleaning, enhancing, and modifying the image in any way
Sorry :) I got burned by Morphic in a personal project and went on a rabid cleaning. In all fairness, I tagged some of those "later" :-P
We really need to stop. I integrated you Morphic cleanup and now we got a comment on the bug tracker (from someone who wanted to work on another bug): â Why do I hate it when I tried to build a new 3.0 image to improve that slice, that the image building ends in : KeyNotFound: key #TasklistMorph not found in SystemDictionary because of my settings?â WE NEED TO STOP. Marcus
On 24 Jan 2014, at 09:44, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
â Why do I hate it when I tried to build a new 3.0 image to improve that slice, that the image building ends in :
KeyNotFound: key #TasklistMorph not found in SystemDictionary
because of my settings?â
WE NEED TO STOP.
Thatâs true, but on the other, itâs a silly comment... Ben
On 24 Jan 2014, at 13:48, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2014, at 09:44, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
â Why do I hate it when I tried to build a new 3.0 image to improve that slice, that the image building ends in :
KeyNotFound: key #TasklistMorph not found in SystemDictionary
because of my settings?â
WE NEED TO STOP.
Thatâs true, but on the other, itâs a silly comment...
In beta normally we should not change things that require people to change again code...
On 24 Jan 2014, at 14:19, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2014, at 10:18, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
In beta normally we should not change things that require people to change again code...
Then do not integrate them ...
The issue was âfix to includeâ which is defined as âdo not think, include, all discussion has been doneâ. Marcus
On 24 Jan 2014, at 14:24, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2014, at 14:19, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2014, at 10:18, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
In beta normally we should not change things that require people to change again code...
Then do not integrate them ...
The issue was âfix to includeâ which is defined as âdo not think, include, all discussion has been doneâ.
And I can not be the only person who decides things. I think people have no idea how tiring it is to take a decisions like that all the time. The tiring thin about integrating is not the integration. Itâs the fact that one has to *decide* something like that 10 times a day. Marcus
It is not the first time we do a release and not the last time and in the worst case we have some updates afterwards. So the warning is clear: no radical changes anymore. But we should try to improve and stabilize the system (as ever). Step by step... Thx T. @Marcus: we appreciate this decision making!
On 24 Jan 2014, at 10:25, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
And I can not be the only person who decides things. I think people have no idea how tiring it is to take a decisions like that all the time.
The tiring thin about integrating is not the integration. Itâs the fact that one has to *decide* something like that 10 times a day.
Should I say that then maybe we should change the integration process? As already proposed multiple times? Ben
On 24 Jan 2014, at 14:48, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24 Jan 2014, at 10:25, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
And I can not be the only person who decides things. I think people have no idea how tiring it is to take a decisions like that all the time.
The tiring thin about integrating is not the integration. Itâs the fact that one has to *decide* something like that 10 times a day.
Should I say that then maybe we should change the integration process? As already proposed multiple times?
What will it help? Who will then decide? Why does that person not help deciding now? Marcus
On 24 Jan 2014, at 10:53, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
What will it help? Who will then decide? Why does that person not help deciding now?
Because it requires downloading an image, loading the slices check the diff. If in Lille this can takes few minutes (which is already long), in Chile this is roughly 10 minutes just to have the changes. Ben
We should be restrained at the start of Pharo 4 development too because we firstly need to improve modularization of the system. It's common that at the start of the development cycle a huge amount of various modifications is integrated and often with only little regards on modularization. Then to improve the Pharo in this frontline is very hard and ungrateful task. At the start of the new release we firstly need to change our system and integration tools to take this into account... Cheers, -- Pavel 2014/1/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
On 24 Jan 2014, at 13:11, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
EstebanLM wrote
*please* stop cleaning, enhancing, and modifying the image in any way
Sorry :) I got burned by Morphic in a personal project and went on a rabid cleaning. In all fairness, I tagged some of those "later" :-P
We really need to stop. I integrated you Morphic cleanup and now we got a comment on the bug tracker (from someone who wanted to work on another bug):
â Why do I hate it when I tried to build a new 3.0 image to improve that slice, that the image building ends in :
KeyNotFound: key #TasklistMorph not found in SystemDictionary
because of my settings?â
WE NEED TO STOP.
Marcus
+ 1000
We should be restrained at the start of Pharo 4 development too because we firstly need to improve modularization of the system. It's common that at the start of the development cycle a huge amount of various modifications is integrated and often with only little regards on modularization. Then to improve the Pharo in this frontline is very hard and ungrateful task. At the start of the new release we firstly need to change our system and integration tools to take this into account...
Cheers, -- Pavel
thatâs Pavel sharing our âsecret talksâ to the whole world⦠:P On 26 Jan 2014, at 09:58, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef@free.fr> wrote:
+ 1000
We should be restrained at the start of Pharo 4 development too because we firstly need to improve modularization of the system. It's common that at the start of the development cycle a huge amount of various modifications is integrated and often with only little regards on modularization. Then to improve the Pharo in this frontline is very hard and ungrateful task. At the start of the new release we firstly need to change our system and integration tools to take this into account...
Cheers, -- Pavel
participants (7)
-
Benjamin -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Marcus Denker -
Pavel Krivanek -
Pharo4Stef -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Torsten Bergmann