Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)
I would like to contribute to this discussions, since is related to my work. I've really enjoyed the discussion on this thread on enhancements or full replacements to the traditional tools for programming that we have since smalltalk-72-76. In the context of my thesis , i'm researching the use of development environments which are built using the "object-focused metaphor" as opposed to traditional ones that use the "view-focused" metaphor. SELF was the first (and 20 years later still impressive) , and Code bubbles is the latest. We are building a system called Gaucho, which allows to manipulate all the elements that make up the program, by direct-manipulation of visual entities called shapes. The goal is to minimize the presence of the tools by giving prominence to the objects themselves. Gaucho allows developers to freely place the shapes within an infinite plane, called the pampas, which eases the task of comparing different objects, and enables developers to make use of spatial arrangements to support task context. Gaucho also remembers all the changes made to the system, both visual and system changes, for better understanding past and the current development session. I believe these features greatly improve the programming experience, as opposed to more tool based approaches. In the attached a simple example of a Gaucho, running on top of Pharo, rendering with Athens with a Cairo and Pango backend, without morphic! For having this i had to implement: * simpler and more manageable ui framework than morphic, rethought completely from scratch for a vectorial canvas. *.a non-overlapping scheme,so the shapes can push each other away *.complete change model etc... I've been working actively to release a new version, and soon will have it ready. Fernando On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:40 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24 February 2012 00:18, Matias Garcia Isaia <mgarciaisaia@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Nooo!!! he comes from Java!! he starts with index 0. Kill him!!! ;)
Ooops... Time to get a new identity :)
On 23 February 2012 19:47, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Sure we know. And we also know that it requires effort and lot of people are talking.
I know there's a loooong way to see what CodeBubbles can do, and that requires to do a big effort, but imagined that some kind of alternative - I'm not sure that CB is **exactly** what I want (sure Java-ers want to see **something more** than just a file pimped with colours, but Smalltalk **allready has** much more than a text file - have real code)  - could be very less effort-consuming. Making the current browser (Nautilus? - newbie here :) ) pop a new ¿window?¿morph? showing a method instead of updating a single pane (the current one showing method's source) don't seems to be so "far" away to me.
Of course that's my point of view, based on what I imagine that could be. I should spend some time to see how it is implemented, and to see if it really is that simple, but anyway trust you if you say is a huge effort...
Well, popping out a new morph every time you clicking around is easy part. The hard part is to make this stuff really consistent and easy to use for navigation and development. It requires far more serious work than just spending 2 hours implementing "bubbling" behavior.
Cheers :)
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
I can't wait to give it a try. Doru On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch> wrote:
I would like to contribute to this discussions, since is related to my work. I've really enjoyed the discussion on this thread on enhancements or full replacements to the traditional tools for programming that we have since smalltalk-72-76.
In the context of my thesis , i'm researching the use of  development environments which are built using the "object-focused metaphor" as opposed to traditional ones that use the "view-focused" metaphor. SELF was the first (and 20 years later still impressive) , and Code bubbles is the latest.
We are building a system called Gaucho, which allows to manipulate all the elements that make up the program, by direct-manipulation of visual entities called shapes. The goal is to minimize the presence of the tools by giving prominence to the objects themselves.
Gaucho allows developers to freely place the shapes within an infinite plane, called the pampas, which  eases the task of comparing different objects, and enables developers to make use of spatial arrangements to support task context.
Gaucho also remembers all the changes made to the system, both visual and system changes, for better understanding past and the current development session.
I believe these features greatly improve the programming experience, as opposed to more tool based approaches.
In the attached a simple example of a Gaucho, running on top of Pharo, rendering with Athens with a Cairo and Pango backend, without morphic!
For having this i had to implement: * simpler and more manageable ui framework than morphic, rethought completely from scratch for a vectorial canvas. *.a non-overlapping scheme,so the shapes can push each other away *.complete change model etc...
I've been working actively to release a new version, and soon will have it ready. Fernando
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:40 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24 February 2012 00:18, Matias Garcia Isaia <mgarciaisaia@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Nooo!!! he comes from Java!! he starts with index 0. Kill him!!! ;)
Ooops... Time to get a new identity :)
On 23 February 2012 19:47, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Sure we know. And we also know that it requires effort and lot of people are talking.
I know there's a loooong way to see what CodeBubbles can do, and that requires to do a big effort, but imagined that some kind of alternative - I'm not sure that CB is **exactly** what I want (sure Java-ers want to see **something more** than just a file pimped with colours, but Smalltalk **allready has** much more than a text file - have real code)  - could be very less effort-consuming. Making the current browser (Nautilus? - newbie here :) ) pop a new ¿window?¿morph? showing a method instead of updating a single pane (the current one showing method's source) don't seems to be so "far" away to me.
Of course that's my point of view, based on what I imagine that could be. I should spend some time to see how it is implemented, and to see if it really is that simple, but anyway trust you if you say is a huge effort...
Well, popping out a new morph every time you clicking around is easy part. The hard part is to make this stuff really consistent and easy to use for navigation and development. It requires far more serious work than just spending 2 hours implementing "bubbling" behavior.
Cheers :)
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
participants (2)
-
Fernando Olivero -
Tudor Girba