[Pharo-project] How to create a basic OS for the Raspberry Pi - VM+Pharo on top?
Check http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/freshers/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/ Now, how hard would it be to get a stack VM and an image running on top? Anyone looking at this kind of stuff in the community? Phil
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ... Pharo + TCL works perfectly fine.. in the meagre runs I have done.. Should be a better WM than what they currently have for TCL.. On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 12:58 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be>wrote:
Check
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/freshers/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/
Now, how hard would it be to get a stack VM and an image running on top? Anyone looking at this kind of stuff in the community?
Phil
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ...
There is a Debian made specially for the hardware... http://www.raspbian.org I think this is what everyone is using. So the only thing missing is a VM... Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
Hey cool. Once I have the iPad thing keyboard fixed (working on it), I'd like to have a go at that. Is there any PI emulator around? (so that we can work without a PI board). Markus, as for CUDA and stuff, I have attended a presentation from an engineer in Mons for his master and the subject was PGAS languages, like Chapel and X10. These do have interesting constructs that we could draw some inspiration from when it comes to adding support in Pharo and VM. Chapel is an ARPA research project at this point. They really want to tackle massive numbers of CPUs. Scatter and gather are important things in there, as are transparently distributed arrays and ease of programming. Phil 2012/9/4 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ...
There is a Debian made specially for the hardware... http://www.raspbian.org I think this is what everyone is using.
So the only thing missing is a VM...
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
On 4 September 2012 07:30, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ...
There is a Debian made specially for the hardware... http://www.raspbian.org I think this is what everyone is using.
So the only thing missing is a VM...
I assumed that Phil wants to run the image directly on the hardware, because the Pi already runs Squeak/Pharo/Scratch just fine. The SqueakNOS people might be able to help? frank
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
That would be great..!.. Need to order the pi and check it out.. On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com>wrote:
On 4 September 2012 07:30, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ...
There is a Debian made specially for the hardware... http://www.raspbian.org I think this is what everyone is using.
So the only thing missing is a VM...
I assumed that Phil wants to run the image directly on the hardware, because the Pi already runs Squeak/Pharo/Scratch just fine.
The SqueakNOS people might be able to help?
frank
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
There is always a need for a vm. SqueakNos last release on mid 2011 was compatible only with an special compiled stackvm for x86 (this special vm strips out all the OS support and has a particular linking process). I'm not sure why someone would be willing to run sqnos on the Rasperry but anyway, the work for doing that should be the same than thatt for compiling the special stackvm from sqnos to ARM arquitecture. It would be very interesting to think on going one step further and try to make sqnos compatible with the new cogvm and pharo 2.0. Hope to have some time to try it. Cheers, Guido. 2012/9/4 S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com>
That would be great..!..
Need to order the pi and check it out..
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com>wrote:
On 4 September 2012 07:30, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ...
There is a Debian made specially for the hardware... http://www.raspbian.org I think this is what everyone is using.
So the only thing missing is a VM...
I assumed that Phil wants to run the image directly on the hardware, because the Pi already runs Squeak/Pharo/Scratch just fine.
The SqueakNOS people might be able to help?
frank
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
On 4 September 2012 15:19, Guido Chari <charig@gmail.com> wrote:
There is always a need for a vm. SqueakNos last release on mid 2011 was compatible only with an special compiled stackvm for x86 (this special vm strips out all the OS support and has a particular linking process). I'm not sure why someone would be willing to run sqnos on the Rasperry but anyway, the work for doing that should be the same than thatt for compiling the special stackvm from sqnos to ARM arquitecture.
No, there isn't always a need for a VM: Smalltalk's been demoed running directly on a Mitsubishi chip, and you could always program an FGPA or similar as your _machine_. And as I mentioned, the Stack VM already runs on the Raspberry, so assumed that Phil wanted something _more_ than that, and that's running the image directly on hardware (or similar, like SqueakNOS). frank
It would be very interesting to think on going one step further and try to make sqnos compatible with the new cogvm and pharo 2.0. Hope to have some time to try it.
Cheers, Guido.
2012/9/4 S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com>
That would be great..!..
Need to order the pi and check it out..
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4 September 2012 07:30, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ...
There is a Debian made specially for the hardware... http://www.raspbian.org I think this is what everyone is using.
So the only thing missing is a VM...
I assumed that Phil wants to run the image directly on the hardware, because the Pi already runs Squeak/Pharo/Scratch just fine.
The SqueakNOS people might be able to help?
frank
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
2012/9/4 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com>
On 4 September 2012 15:19, Guido Chari <charig@gmail.com> wrote:
There is always a need for a vm. SqueakNos last release on mid 2011 was compatible only with an special compiled stackvm for x86 (this special vm strips out all the OS support and has a particular linking process). I'm not sure why someone would be willing to run sqnos on the Rasperry but anyway, the work for doing that should be the same than thatt for compiling the special stackvm from sqnos to ARM arquitecture.
No, there isn't always a need for a VM: Smalltalk's been demoed running directly on a Mitsubishi chip, and you could always program an FGPA or similar as your _machine_.
Right, but we were talking about the *Raspberry.*
And as I mentioned, the Stack VM already runs on the Raspberry, so assumed that Phil wanted something _more_ than that, and that's running the image directly on hardware (or similar, like SqueakNOS).
SqueakNOS doesn´t discard the vm, the image runs on a vm, what it discards is the operating system.
frank
It would be very interesting to think on going one step further and try to make sqnos compatible with the new cogvm and pharo 2.0. Hope to have some time to try it.
Cheers, Guido.
2012/9/4 S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com>
That would be great..!..
Need to order the pi and check it out..
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 September 2012 07:30, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ...
There is a Debian made specially for the hardware... http://www.raspbian.org I think this is what everyone is using.
So the only thing missing is a VM...
I assumed that Phil wants to run the image directly on the hardware, because the Pi already runs Squeak/Pharo/Scratch just fine.
The SqueakNOS people might be able to help?
frank
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
Hi! I'm not sure if the idea is to have a pharo running on a simple OS on top of a raspbpi, which would be equivalent to have pharo on ARM (I think), or to have pharo running as the OS on top of it, as SqueakNOS. In the latter case, it is surely possible. But beware, it can be some tough work to get it running, maybe not that difficult but a lot of work. Actually, SqueakNOS was not compiled with the StackVM but the old interpreter. There are two things that would be needed to make it work in the StackVM or Cog (jit is not the problem): - Makefiles for the platform are handmade, so it might require to convert to cmake to use the stackvm. - There are some features brought by the OS used by the stack vm and cog, which should be worked around, I can't remember exactly which ones. To make it work on top of raspberrypi you'd need to add to the list: - Writing support for some of the base devices - Merging it into arm platform As I previously said, the biggest barrier is (I think) that it needs some work, which takes time, but not the difficulty. So if someone is interested and wants to work on this, I'd be glad to guide him. Cheers, Javier. On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com>wrote:
On 4 September 2012 15:19, Guido Chari <charig@gmail.com> wrote:
There is always a need for a vm. SqueakNos last release on mid 2011 was compatible only with an special compiled stackvm for x86 (this special vm strips out all the OS support and has a particular linking process). I'm not sure why someone would be willing to run sqnos on the Rasperry but anyway, the work for doing that should be the same than thatt for compiling the special stackvm from sqnos to ARM arquitecture.
No, there isn't always a need for a VM: Smalltalk's been demoed running directly on a Mitsubishi chip, and you could always program an FGPA or similar as your _machine_.
And as I mentioned, the Stack VM already runs on the Raspberry, so assumed that Phil wanted something _more_ than that, and that's running the image directly on hardware (or similar, like SqueakNOS).
frank
It would be very interesting to think on going one step further and try to make sqnos compatible with the new cogvm and pharo 2.0. Hope to have some time to try it.
Cheers, Guido.
2012/9/4 S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com>
That would be great..!..
Need to order the pi and check it out..
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 September 2012 07:30, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
wrote:
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 5:31 PM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you should be able to run Tiny Core linux ( vanilla without WM) on Raspberry.. add Pharo ...
There is a Debian made specially for the hardware... http://www.raspbian.org I think this is what everyone is using.
So the only thing missing is a VM...
I assumed that Phil wants to run the image directly on the hardware, because the Pi already runs Squeak/Pharo/Scratch just fine.
The SqueakNOS people might be able to help?
frank
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
-- Lic. Javier Pimás Ciudad de Buenos Aires
I'm sure that JB would like to try as soon as he is done with his PhD. He bought two raspberry Pi. Stef On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:28 AM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
Check
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/freshers/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/
Now, how hard would it be to get a stack VM and an image running on top? Anyone looking at this kind of stuff in the community?
Phil
participants (7)
-
Frank Shearar -
Guido Chari -
Javier Pimás -
Marcus Denker -
phil＠highoctane.be -
S Krish -
Stéphane Ducasse