Definetly yesssssssss I use the launcher all the time , I love it, And why macos only, works on windows like a charm too. No problem on Linux either. Frankly pharo is the first language I use that comes with an installer like this. Definetly this need to be promoted out there. It also shows the power of images and why we love them. I have not run into any kinda a bug with it apart from 1. When the servers were down instead of saying "sorry cant found the servers" it kept trying and trying to download in an infinite loops and I had to force quit it. I see no reason why PharoLauncher could be integrated inside pharo. I have to say though I would love for someone to fix the update process too, the whole deal of dowloading the latest release and then installing from scratch all my third party libraries is killing my inner child. Probably I should make a configuration of my setup, but still, I would love to click "update" and automagically get updated to latest version. On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 12:38 PM, roberto.minelli@usi.ch < roberto.minelli@usi.ch> wrote:

I like the launcher, I’ll use it for sure by myself even though it will not be part of the standard Pharo distro.

Cheers, R

On Dec 20, 2013, at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi guys,

what do you think about setting the PharoLauncher as the default download for mac os x users?

If you never tried the launcher, please try it now:

Mac OS X: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoLauncher-Mac-Package/lastSuc... Ubuntu : https://launchpad.net/~pharo/+archive/stable Others: http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/PharoLauncher

-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

On Dec 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

I have to say though I would love for someone to fix the update process too, the whole deal of dowloading the latest release and then installing from scratch all my third party libraries is killing my inner child. Probably I should make a configuration of my setup, but still, I would love to click "update" and automagically get updated to latest version.

An incentive: once you have your own ConfigurationOfAmazingProject you have a way to rebuild yourself from scratch with no effort* that’s powerful because, not always, but every once in a while, things happen to images If you do that, you’ll be your inner child’s hero when sh*t happens ;) *only time and sometimes maintain the versions of what it should load

kilon alios wrote

the whole deal of dowloading the latest release and then installing from scratch all my third party libraries is killing my inner child

I may not be understanding what you mean, but do you know about World->System->'Software update'? I didn't. It won't update across major versions (2.0 -> 3.0), but e.g. 20625 -> 20628 no problem. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoLauncher-as-the-default-Pharo-download-on-pharo-o... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

"I may not be understanding what you mean, but do you know about World->System->'Software update'? I didn't. It won't update across major versions (2.0 -> 3.0), but e.g. 20625 -> 20628 no problem." last time I tried it update was broken . "People are using CI servers… the update process for the development version is *very* hard to keep alive over big transformations of existing instances. if then most people use CI servers and download a fresh image each morning… the work is very hard to justify." I am ok with that. I have solved my problem making a configuration with all my favorite pharo libraries. All I have to do now is download the new image , load the configuration and my favorite libraries get reinstalled. I could probably further automate this by making pharo launcher run my configuration each times it downloads the image. In any case I love pharolauncher, its far better than anything I have used for any programming language and foremost I dont need to use a terminal.

On 20/12/2013 10:45, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:

On 20 Dec 2013, at 10:44, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi guys,

what do you think about setting the PharoLauncher as the default download for mac os x users?

In general makes sense, however I think it needs to clean up a few things. 1) Setting of the default directories - these should be more Apple standard i.e. images not in preferences and even better in a Sandbox so eventually could be available via App Store which would increase the number of people who would see it. (I have use the settings to change the directory for me.) 2) Dealing with saved images. If you do a save as.. the this new image does not show in the launcher. I think there are two ways of fixing this i) don't put images and source in sub directories ii) Make the save as in Pharo create a sub directory Point ii) leads onto making the save of an image save to an OSX bundle (i.e. a directory containing several files that OSX can see as one unit) 3) The icons need to have more responsive pop-overs to explain what they do.(I almost wrote any pop-over but after a minute I can get them 30% of the time) 4) For first time users I think the right pane needs a look at - users will not know which is the correct template to use. I would suggest making the Pharo latest stable a top level entry and highlighting that.

I would start by featuring it more prominently on the download page while explaining clearly what it does. Maybe it also needs its own documentation/promotion web page.

And add some documentation to the launcher -- Mark

On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Mark Bestley <st@bestley.co.uk> wrote:

1) Setting of the default directories - these should be more Apple standard i.e. images not in preferences and even better in a Sandbox so eventually could be available via App Store which would increase the number of people who would see it. (I have use the settings to change the directory for me.)

I changed the default directories on all systems: - mac: ~/Library/Application Support/Pharo/images - win: %APPDATA%\Pharo\images - unix: ~/.local/share/Pharo/images And everyone can change these values to what they want like a dropbox folder (just go to the launcher settings, change the path, and save).

2) Dealing with saved images. If you do a save as.. the this new image does not show in the launcher. I think there are two ways of fixing this i) don't put images and source in sub directories ii) Make the save as in Pharo create a sub directory

agree. I think I will try another solution iii) when launching an image, if multiple ones are present, let the user select with a drop-down. These ways, the concept of a "launcher's image" can still be seen as a project whereas the .image files can be seen as versions of this project.

Point ii) leads onto making the save of an image save to an OSX bundle (i.e. a directory containing several files that OSX can see as one unit)

I don't understand that

3) The icons need to have more responsive pop-overs to explain what they do.(I almost wrote any pop-over but after a minute I can get them 30% of the time)

I don't understand that as well

4) For first time users I think the right pane needs a look at - users will not know which is the correct template to use. I would suggest making the Pharo latest stable a top level entry and highlighting that.

agree, I will fix that -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

EstebanLM wrote

I think this is conceptually wrong. Images has to go (by default) into "~/Documents/Pharo Images". (Same as VMWare virtual machines go into "~/Documents/Virtual Machines" and parallels into “~/Documents/Parallels"

+1 ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoLauncher-as-the-default-Pharo-download-on-pharo-o... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

I put my images into a ~/Pharo/imageDir/image I agree in the one dir per image approach… but we were arguing about the root, not the other part :) Esteban On 27 Jan 2014, at 17:53, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:

On Jan 27, 2014, at 2:27 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:

...

...

I think this is conceptually wrong. Images has to go (by default) into "~/Documents/Pharo Images". (Same as VMWare virtual machines go into "~/Documents/Virtual Machines" and parallels into “~/Documents/Parallels"

This sounds right but I’d not take it lightly.

I don’t know what would be best.

For what is worth, here are some thoughts:

1. I won’t put imageS in a folder. More than one image per folder smells 2. that structure doesn’t look very much git friendly. I’d rather use a Documents/git folder under which I’d clone any project including the many Pharo based projects. As usual, when you clone a git repo, it has its own folder with its own stuff 3. I might want to version the image itself in the git repo. Maybe I want keep a track of the VM too 4. subfolders of the image dir are often used by applications, again, looks like it will easily misfit

Idea:

maybe the launcher can be location agnostic and remember somewhere the locations of the lasts images that where opened with it and simply offer links to open the ones at the lasts, say 7 images, paths. You will even evade coupling that to the OS

On Jan 27, 2014, at 3:00 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com> wrote:

...

maybe the launcher can be location agnostic and remember somewhere the locations of the lasts images that where opened with it and simply offer links to open the ones at the lasts, say 7 images, paths. You will even evade coupling that to the OS

where do you store the images that the launcher creates?

I’m not currently using launcher but if I’d use it, I want my images pretty much as I already described. Because I move stuff from OS X in development to linux in production I’d hate things coupled to hidden magic places because it will force me to either search for them every time or complicate git repos (injected resistance) or not use the launcher at all (removing that resistance and the alleged convenience it would fail to provide). Therefore, my suggestion is to keep it location agnostic sebastian o/

On Jan 28, 2014, at 12:21 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Therefore, my suggestion is to keep it location agnostic

I still don't get it. Do you suggest that the launcher should always ask the user where to put new images?

Here is an idea: you can count the clicks and the cases it’d satisfy Also, if you want to, you can use the OS specific directory as default path for when it’s brand new (after that, my guess is that it’d be more convenient to use the same path as the last opened image) When it’s brand new, you don’t print the list and change the path label to “Create a new image on directory:” and you have a complete non-nonsense experience for nerds and dummies