Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Company/freelance working with Pharo/Seaside
Janko, stephane and others We need your inputs to build a structure to answer these questions. So what would help you to make your clients feel more confident? Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really interested in making business grows around pharo. so do you think that the consortium could have a list of companies offering services? freelancers? ⦠The consortium should help you. Stef
On 12 Dec 2011, at 11:28, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
We need your inputs to build a structure to answer these questions. So what would help you to make your clients feel more confident? Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really interested in making business grows around pharo.
so do you think that the consortium could have a list of companies offering services? freelancers? ⦠The consortium should help you.
Having an active community where many people participate in making Pharo better all the time is the best reference. It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared. Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, yes. But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-) Although it is important that the community keeps on growing, we reached critical mass a long time ago, IMHO. Sven
On Dec 12, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
On 12 Dec 2011, at 11:28, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
We need your inputs to build a structure to answer these questions. So what would help you to make your clients feel more confident? Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really interested in making business grows around pharo.
so do you think that the consortium could have a list of companies offering services? freelancers? ⦠The consortium should help you.
Having an active community where many people participate in making Pharo better all the time is the best reference.
It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared.
Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, yes.
But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-)
Although it is important that the community keeps on growing, we reached critical mass a long time ago, IMHO.
:) Yes but I would like to structure that point :)
Sven
Well, i'll write my answer in english and spanish (Mariano and Esteban, please help if in my translate loose some think). English At least for my experience in other technologies management, (My Smalltalks clients are small companies, and save in any think they can), the client feel more comfortable if pait to support to a third person. That is, for much as a small payment, and answers them one person at a call center, which has no idea what the answer and just follow the guide for questions and answers such as "Is the power machine on?" not matter, they feel more comfortable. Especially when you go to the production stage. In 90% of the cases, calling the provider of the solution to any problem, but they feelmore secure if you have Oracle, Microsofts, Etc. support If you see as the business model of Gemstone Currently, only the Enterprise license is paid. In this sense, I think it would be very important to have a figure as official support and a supported release, is something like RedHator PostgreSQL. If the goal is to grow in space Pharo Enterprise. On the other hand, I agree there is an active community, it is almost meaningless, but keep in mind that many cases those who manage a technology area, don't know technology, and need a comfort zone and someone to call at a crisis With regard to structure, I think that those who agreed to join the Consortum have to have a role, I guess the first line (the most common questions) should be results from a list. After X time, for example 48 hours, or whatever you define. The case must be taken by one of the engineers. All you have to keep in mind that contact with the subscriber, should be one and only, not to make noise. Best Spanish. Por lo menos durante mi experiencia de gestión en otros tecnologÃa, (Los clientes que tengo en smalltalk, son PyMes y ahorran en todo lo que pueden ), el cliente se siente mas cómodo si paga a un tercero, para soporte. Es decir, por mas que sea un canon chico, y lo atiende una persona en un call center, que no tiene idea de lo que esta contestando y solo sigue una guÃa de preguntas y respuestas tal como, "Tiene encendida la maquina", no importa, se sienten mas comodos. Sobre todo cuando pasan a la etapa de producción, en el 90% de los casos, terminan llamando al proveedor de la solución, pero se sienten mas seguros, si tiene el soporte de Oracle, Microsofts, Etc. Si ven como esta armando el negocio de Gemstone Actualmente, solo la licencia de uso Enterprise tiene precio. En este sentido creo que serÃa muy importante que exista una figura de soporte oficial y un release soportado, algo asà como tiene RedHat o PostgreSql. Si el objetivo es hacer crecer Pharo en el espacio Enterprise. Por otra parte estoy de acuerdo existiendo una comunidad activa, esto casi carece de sentido, pero tengan en cuenta que muchos casos los que gestionan un área de tecnologÃa, no conocen de ella y necesitan una área de comodidad y alguien a quien llamar ante una crisis. Con respecto a la estructura para esto, creo que aquellos que aceptamos formar parte del Consortum tenemos que tener un rol, supongo que una primera linea (las preguntas más comunes) deberá ser resulta por una lista y pasado X tiempo, por ejemplo 48 horas, o lo que se defina. El caso deberá ser tomado por alguno de los ingenieros. Lo único que habrÃa que tener en cuenta que el contacto con el suscriptor, deberÃa ser uno y solo, para no hacer lios. Saludos http://about.me/diogenes.moreira 2011/12/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>
On Dec 12, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
On 12 Dec 2011, at 11:28, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
We need your inputs to build a structure to answer these questions. So what would help you to make your clients feel more confident? Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really interested
in making business grows around pharo.
so do you think that the consortium could have a list of companies offering services? freelancers? ⦠The consortium should help you.
Having an active community where many people participate in making Pharo better all the time is the best reference.
It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared.
Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, yes.
But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-)
Although it is important that the community keeps on growing, we reached critical mass a long time ago, IMHO.
:) Yes but I would like to structure that point :)
Sven
Thanks diogenes. First we should - get a consortium - a list of possible freelancers - pay an engineer and see. Stef On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Diogenes Moreira wrote:
Well, i'll write my answer in english and spanish (Mariano and Esteban, please help if in my translate loose some think).
English
At least for my experience in other technologies management, (My Smalltalks clients are small companies, and save in any think they can), the client feel more comfortable if pait to support to a third person. That is, for much as a small payment, and answers them one person at a call center, which has no idea what the answer and just follow the guide for questions and answers such as "Is the power machine on?" not matter, they feel more comfortable. Especially when you go to the production stage. In 90% of the cases, calling the provider of the solution to any problem, but they feelmore secure if you have Oracle, Microsofts, Etc. support If you see as the business model of Gemstone Currently, only the Enterprise license is paid. In this sense, I think it would be very important to have a figure as official support and a supported release, is something like RedHator PostgreSQL. If the goal is to grow in space Pharo Enterprise.
On the other hand, I agree there is an active community, it is almost meaningless, but keep in mind that many cases those who manage a technology area, don't know technology, and need a comfort zone and someone to call at a crisis
With regard to structure, I think that those who agreed to join the Consortum have to have a role, I guess the first line (the most common questions) should be results from a list. After X time, for example 48 hours, or whatever you define. The case must be taken by one of the engineers. All you have to keep in mind that contact with the subscriber, should be one and only, not to make noise.
Best
Spanish.
Por lo menos durante mi experiencia de gestión en otros tecnologÃa, (Los clientes que tengo en smalltalk, son PyMes y ahorran en todo lo que pueden ), el cliente se siente mas cómodo si paga a un tercero, para soporte. Es decir, por mas que sea un canon chico, y lo atiende una persona en un call center, que no tiene idea de lo que esta contestando y solo sigue una guÃa de preguntas y respuestas tal como, "Tiene encendida la maquina", no importa, se sienten mas comodos. Sobre todo cuando pasan a la etapa de producción, en el 90% de los casos, terminan llamando al proveedor de la solución, pero se sienten mas seguros, si tiene el soporte de Oracle, Microsofts, Etc. Si ven como esta armando el negocio de Gemstone Actualmente, solo la licencia de uso Enterprise tiene precio. En este sentido creo que serÃa muy importante que exista una figura de soporte oficial y un release soportado, algo asà como tiene RedHat o PostgreSql. Si el objetivo es hacer crecer Pharo en el espacio Enterprise.
Por otra parte estoy de acuerdo existiendo una comunidad activa, esto casi carece de sentido, pero tengan en cuenta que muchos casos los que gestionan un área de tecnologÃa, no conocen de ella y necesitan una área de comodidad y alguien a quien llamar ante una crisis.
Con respecto a la estructura para esto, creo que aquellos que aceptamos formar parte del Consortum tenemos que tener un rol, supongo que una primera linea (las preguntas más comunes) deberá ser resulta por una lista y pasado X tiempo, por ejemplo 48 horas, o lo que se defina. El caso deberá ser tomado por alguno de los ingenieros. Lo único que habrÃa que tener en cuenta que el contacto con el suscriptor, deberÃa ser uno y solo, para no hacer lios.
Saludos
http://about.me/diogenes.moreira
2011/12/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>
On Dec 12, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
On 12 Dec 2011, at 11:28, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
We need your inputs to build a structure to answer these questions. So what would help you to make your clients feel more confident? Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really interested in making business grows around pharo.
so do you think that the consortium could have a list of companies offering services? freelancers? ⦠The consortium should help you.
Having an active community where many people participate in making Pharo better all the time is the best reference.
It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared.
Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, yes.
But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-)
Although it is important that the community keeps on growing, we reached critical mass a long time ago, IMHO.
:) Yes but I would like to structure that point :)
Sven
+1 i'm fully agree. http://about.me/diogenes.moreira 2011/12/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>
Thanks diogenes.
First we should - get a consortium - a list of possible freelancers - pay an engineer and see.
Stef On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Diogenes Moreira wrote:
Well, i'll write my answer in english and spanish (Mariano and Esteban, please help if in my translate loose some think).
English
At least for my experience in other technologies management, (My Smalltalks clients are small companies, and save in any think they can), the client feel more comfortable if pait to support to a third person. That is, for much as a small payment, and answers them one person at a call center, which has no idea what the answer and just follow the guide for questions and answers such as "Is the power machine on?" not matter, they feel more comfortable. Especially when you go to the production stage. In 90% of the cases, calling the provider of the solution to any problem, but they feelmore secure if you have Oracle, Microsofts, Etc. support If you see as the business model of Gemstone Currently, only the Enterprise license is paid. In this sense, I think it would be very important to have a figure as official support and a supported release, is something like RedHator PostgreSQL. If the goal is to grow in space Pharo Enterprise.
On the other hand, I agree there is an active community, it is almost meaningless, but keep in mind that many cases those who manage a technology area, don't know technology, and need a comfort zone and someone to call at a crisis
With regard to structure, I think that those who agreed to join the Consortum have to have a role, I guess the first line (the most common questions) should be results from a list. After X time, for example 48 hours, or whatever you define. The case must be taken by one of the engineers. All you have to keep in mind that contact with the subscriber, should be one and only, not to make noise.
Best
Spanish.
Por lo menos durante mi experiencia de gestión en otros tecnologÃa, (Los clientes que tengo en smalltalk, son PyMes y ahorran en todo lo que pueden ), el cliente se siente mas cómodo si paga a un tercero, para soporte. Es decir, por mas que sea un canon chico, y lo atiende una persona en un call center, que no tiene idea de lo que esta contestando y solo sigue una guÃa de preguntas y respuestas tal como, "Tiene encendida la maquina", no importa, se sienten mas comodos. Sobre todo cuando pasan a la etapa de producción, en el 90% de los casos, terminan llamando al proveedor de la solución, pero se sienten mas seguros, si tiene el soporte de Oracle, Microsofts, Etc. Si ven como esta armando el negocio de Gemstone Actualmente, solo la licencia de uso Enterprise tiene precio. En este sentido creo que serÃa muy importante que exista una figura de soporte oficial y un release soportado, algo asà como tiene RedHat o PostgreSql. Si el objetivo es hacer crecer Pharo en el espacio Enterprise.
Por otra parte estoy de acuerdo existiendo una comunidad activa, esto casi carece de sentido, pero tengan en cuenta que muchos casos los que gestionan un área de tecnologÃa, no conocen de ella y necesitan una área de comodidad y alguien a quien llamar ante una crisis.
Con respecto a la estructura para esto, creo que aquellos que aceptamos formar parte del Consortum tenemos que tener un rol, supongo que una primera linea (las preguntas más comunes) deberá ser resulta por una lista y pasado X tiempo, por ejemplo 48 horas, o lo que se defina. El caso deberá ser tomado por alguno de los ingenieros. Lo único que habrÃa que tener en cuenta que el contacto con el suscriptor, deberÃa ser uno y solo, para no hacer lios.
Saludos
http://about.me/diogenes.moreira
2011/12/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>
On Dec 12, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
On 12 Dec 2011, at 11:28, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
We need your inputs to build a structure to answer these questions. So what would help you to make your clients feel more confident? Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really
interested in making business grows around pharo.
so do you think that the consortium could have a list of companies offering services? freelancers? ⦠The consortium should help you.
Having an active community where many people participate in making Pharo better all the time is the best reference.
It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared.
Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, yes.
But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-)
Although it is important that the community keeps on growing, we reached critical mass a long time ago, IMHO.
:) Yes but I would like to structure that point :)
Sven
Thanks Stef!
Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really interested in making business grows around pharo.
We know =)
It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared. Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, yes.
Yep, that's the two main points for me.
But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-)
That's true. And I guess there are many silent observers in the list as well. How many people are there on Pharo-Dev and Pharo-Users by the way? Francois
participants (4)
-
Diogenes Moreira -
Francois Stephany -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Sven Van Caekenberghe