I just understood! Other languages might get better documentation because of all the extra slack time they get between compile cycles, that we don't get with Pharo's tight code-run-debug loop. I know... not a valid excuse for us**, but then I get to show this... https://xkcd.com/303/ ** of course documentation is getting better every day - but I can't let the truth get in the way of a good story :) cheers -ben
Actually this joke I think is "stolen" by a previous joke about 3d artists , because our rendering times can be way longer than compiling the most complex C++ code. Easily can reach months of rendering time. Its a good joke, but it should be taken as it is , a joke and nothing more. Because I happen to build blender from time to time which is 1 million lines of destruction code, aka C/C++ code. Compiling is not that bad. Sure C++ still is hog slow and outperformed 10 times by Pascal compilers which I think that even the Pharo compiler would have a hard time competing with. But makefiles are smart enough to compile and re link whatever it changes and not the whole project. So each new commit I fetch for Blender produces a couple of seconds of compiling time. But the very first compile which compiles everything from scratch can reach even an hour and is not even a complete compile since I use many prebuilt libraries and some prebuilt dependencies. To the subject of documentation it comes attached with a big depends. Documentation is the usual problem pretty much with any programming languages and is based on the fact that coders dont like to document as much they dont like to design good code and make very good GUIs. Frankly you should always feel glad if you find documentation in any language your are coding. If its good documentation too, then its your lucky day indeed. But even in popular languages like Python, sure plenty of documentation for the standard stuff but the moment you start depend on third party libraries you are all alone VS the Alien :D On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:42 PM Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
I just understood! Other languages might get better documentation because of all the extra slack time they get between compile cycles, that we don't get with Pharo's tight code-run-debug loop.
I know... not a valid excuse for us**, but then I get to show this... https://xkcd.com/303/
** of course documentation is getting better every day - but I can't let the truth get in the way of a good story :)
cheers -ben
"Actually this joke I think is "stolen" by a previous joke about 3d artists" nope I think I am wrong once again, looks older. By the way Pharo documentation is so good, I decided to start recommending it even to people new to coding. Much much better than it used to be 2 years ago, in another 2 we will be much better :) We still missing a good tutorial on OOP for absolute beginners but at some point I think I will get around to writing a chapter for UPBE. On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 5:24 PM Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually this joke I think is "stolen" by a previous joke about 3d artists , because our rendering times can be way longer than compiling the most complex C++ code. Easily can reach months of rendering time.
Its a good joke, but it should be taken as it is , a joke and nothing more.
Because I happen to build blender from time to time which is 1 million lines of destruction code, aka C/C++ code. Compiling is not that bad. Sure C++ still is hog slow and outperformed 10 times by Pascal compilers which I think that even the Pharo compiler would have a hard time competing with. But makefiles are smart enough to compile and re link whatever it changes and not the whole project.
So each new commit I fetch for Blender produces a couple of seconds of compiling time. But the very first compile which compiles everything from scratch can reach even an hour and is not even a complete compile since I use many prebuilt libraries and some prebuilt dependencies.
To the subject of documentation it comes attached with a big depends. Documentation is the usual problem pretty much with any programming languages and is based on the fact that coders dont like to document as much they dont like to design good code and make very good GUIs.
Frankly you should always feel glad if you find documentation in any language your are coding. If its good documentation too, then its your lucky day indeed.
But even in popular languages like Python, sure plenty of documentation for the standard stuff but the moment you start depend on third party libraries you are all alone VS the Alien :D
On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:42 PM Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
I just understood! Other languages might get better documentation because of all the extra slack time they get between compile cycles, that we don't get with Pharo's tight code-run-debug loop.
I know... not a valid excuse for us**, but then I get to show this... https://xkcd.com/303/
** of course documentation is getting better every day - but I can't let the truth get in the way of a good story :)
cheers -ben
FWIW, the Blue Book is very good and is a free PDF now. Phil On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
"Actually this joke I think is "stolen" by a previous joke about 3d artists"
nope I think I am wrong once again, looks older.
By the way Pharo documentation is so good, I decided to start recommending it even to people new to coding. Much much better than it used to be 2 years ago, in another 2 we will be much better :)
We still missing a good tutorial on OOP for absolute beginners but at some point I think I will get around to writing a chapter for UPBE.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 5:24 PM Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually this joke I think is "stolen" by a previous joke about 3d artists , because our rendering times can be way longer than compiling the most complex C++ code. Easily can reach months of rendering time.
Its a good joke, but it should be taken as it is , a joke and nothing more.
Because I happen to build blender from time to time which is 1 million lines of destruction code, aka C/C++ code. Compiling is not that bad. Sure C++ still is hog slow and outperformed 10 times by Pascal compilers which I think that even the Pharo compiler would have a hard time competing with. But makefiles are smart enough to compile and re link whatever it changes and not the whole project.
So each new commit I fetch for Blender produces a couple of seconds of compiling time. But the very first compile which compiles everything from scratch can reach even an hour and is not even a complete compile since I use many prebuilt libraries and some prebuilt dependencies.
To the subject of documentation it comes attached with a big depends. Documentation is the usual problem pretty much with any programming languages and is based on the fact that coders dont like to document as much they dont like to design good code and make very good GUIs.
Frankly you should always feel glad if you find documentation in any language your are coding. If its good documentation too, then its your lucky day indeed.
But even in popular languages like Python, sure plenty of documentation for the standard stuff but the moment you start depend on third party libraries you are all alone VS the Alien :D
On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:42 PM Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
I just understood! Other languages might get better documentation because of all the extra slack time they get between compile cycles, that we don't get with Pharo's tight code-run-debug loop.
I know... not a valid excuse for us**, but then I get to show this... https://xkcd.com/303/
** of course documentation is getting better every day - but I can't let the truth get in the way of a good story :)
cheers -ben
The joke it's based on pre-dates use of computers to render complex 3D :-) Here's the world's first computer-generated 3D movie, from the Uni of Utah in 1972: https://vimeo.com/16292363 Compiled languages predate this. On 8 December 2015 at 15:24, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually this joke I think is "stolen" by a previous joke about 3d artists , because our rendering times can be way longer than compiling the most complex C++ code. Easily can reach months of rendering time.
Its a good joke, but it should be taken as it is , a joke and nothing more.
Because I happen to build blender from time to time which is 1 million lines of destruction code, aka C/C++ code. Compiling is not that bad. Sure C++ still is hog slow and outperformed 10 times by Pascal compilers which I think that even the Pharo compiler would have a hard time competing with. But makefiles are smart enough to compile and re link whatever it changes and not the whole project.
So each new commit I fetch for Blender produces a couple of seconds of compiling time. But the very first compile which compiles everything from scratch can reach even an hour and is not even a complete compile since I use many prebuilt libraries and some prebuilt dependencies.
To the subject of documentation it comes attached with a big depends. Documentation is the usual problem pretty much with any programming languages and is based on the fact that coders dont like to document as much they dont like to design good code and make very good GUIs.
Frankly you should always feel glad if you find documentation in any language your are coding. If its good documentation too, then its your lucky day indeed.
But even in popular languages like Python, sure plenty of documentation for the standard stuff but the moment you start depend on third party libraries you are all alone VS the Alien :D
On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:42 PM Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
I just understood! Other languages might get better documentation because of all the extra slack time they get between compile cycles, that we don't get with Pharo's tight code-run-debug loop.
I know... not a valid excuse for us**, but then I get to show this... https://xkcd.com/303/
** of course documentation is getting better every day - but I can't let the truth get in the way of a good story :)
cheers -ben
participants (4)
-
Ben Coman -
Dimitris Chloupis -
EuanM -
phil＠highoctane.be