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On 21 Nov 2010, at 21:47, jaayer wrote:

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Excellent that other, lesser languages like PHP, Perl 6 and Scala have already adopted and standardized Traits while the reactionaries in the Smalltalk community still resist doing the same? Ignoring all the sarcasm in that comment: I don't see any form of standardization here. I am not aware that any of the other existing PHP implementations has picked up Traits so far.

PHP has no standard; the implementation is the standard, and Traits are being added to the implementation, hence, "standardization." My point remains; other languages are or have already adopted Traits while the Smalltalk community, from which the concept sprang, continues to drag its heels after nearly a decade since their introduction.

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And well, it is about 3 years from the first implementation to a first release in an official alpha version of PHP. There is still a loooong way to go...

No, there isn't, at least not compared with the rate of Smalltalk's adoption of Traits. Face it. There are just too many Smalltalkers who seem to think the language is a complete revelation that no mortal has the right to amend. Other languages can grow to accommodate new features; Smalltalk, which went through a number major revisions in the 70s at PARC, remains frozen in the amber of 1980.

:) You are somehow right :). Now some points if you want to help: - I would love to have more support for traits in pharo - using them - improving tool support - revisiting their implementation: this is on my todo since andreas (with a certain marketing effect) "cleaned" the version of squeak. - one question there is can we make traits pluggable on top of the core and does it make sense. - we want other features like modules but but but but but but but but but we want to have the time to work and try out ideas (this is 8 years - yes I'm slow that we started with classboxes - and classboxes does not look like the solution) - now the first step in that direction that we started in 2002 (but people did not understand it :)) was to clean all the smalltalk reference - now we are working on making sure that we can have multiple systemDictionaries side by side it will support not only module design exploration but - OOPAL bootstrap - atomic loading (like in VW) - Moose analysis (ie Moose/pharo1.1 should be able to analyse Moose/pharo1.3 unstable) - remote debugging/development Now my problem is time. So if people want to help please contact us and we could have a lot of fun. stef