Hi Pavel, I'd probably see some interest in building the GitFileTree-MergeDriver with it. It only requires Monticello. Thierry Le 08/10/2017 à 12:41, Pavel Krivanek a écrit :

Hi Sven,

2017-10-07 16:18 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>>:

Hi,

What is the story around PharoMinimal and related images ?

Is there a writeup somewhere with instructions ?

Right now the minimal (Metacello) image based on Pharo 7 is used only as intermediate step in building of the full Pharo and the only real (successful) attempt to use it for something else is PharoLambda (https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda).

In general it can be used for building of own (server) applications. E.g. this way you can install and run Teapot on it:

./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image config http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main ConfigurationOfTeapot --install=stable ./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image eval --no-quit "Teapot on GET: '/welcome' -> 'Hello World'; start."

You can load baselines from the Git repositories too but we currently do not have any command line handler for it so you need to do it using "eval" command or *.st flile. Something like this:

Metacello new baseline: 'Seaside3'; repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository'; load

To make it more usable we probably should extend it with SUnit and Fuel. If you want to extend it with some packages from vanilla Pharo, you should load them using FileTree from your local Pharo repository clone.

Gofer it url: 'filetree:///path-to-my-pharo-repository-clone/pharo/src'; package: 'Multilingual-OtherLanguages'; package: 'Multilingual-TextConverterOtherLanguages'; load.

It still needs some care. E.g. some classes from Zinc are not properly initialized (I know about DigitalSignatureAlgorithm MD5NonPrimitive RxMatcher RxParser RxsPredicate SHA1 ZnByteEncoder ZnConstants ZnMimeType ZnNetworkingUtils ZnServer ZnSingleThreadedServer TextConstants TextAction TextStyle).

I tried to load Seaside into it today (from the example above) and it failed (some strange error probalby related to Unicode processing). But we will fix it. If you will tell me what exactly you need we can make it work together as in case of PharoLambda.

I see that we get **FANTASTIC** startup speed with it:

$ cat /etc/issue Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS

$ ./pharo --version 5.0-201708271955  Sun Aug 27 20:09:20 UTC 2017 gcc 4.6.3 [Production Spur VM] CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2265 uuid: 76b62109-629a-4c39-9641-67b53321df9a Aug 27 2017 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2262 uuid: 8b531242-de02-48aa-b418-8d2dde0bec6c Aug 27 2017 VM: 201708271955 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git> $ Date: Sun Aug 27 21:55:26 2017 +0200 $ Plugins: 201708271955 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git> $ Linux testing-gce-ebf45dd8-6a4c-43a5-abd0-e5d8673d05a4 3.13.0-115-generic #162~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 24 16:47:06 UTC 2017 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955 [default: /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955/]

$ curl get.pharo.org/70-minimal <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal> | bash ...

$ ./pharo Pharo.image printVersion [version] 'Pharo7.0' 'Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.172.sha.d13eed2f80fe19f29fd85ede8c4809d6a6986d4f (32 Bit)'

$ time ./pharo Pharo.image eval '5 factorial' 120 real    0m0.083s user    0m0.034s sys     0m0.042s

That is less than 1/10 of a second on a simple server ! Wow.

Loading new code in that image seem hard though.

I see that in http://files.pharo.org/image/70/ <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/> there are Pharomonticello & Pharometacello variants.

Any pointers on usage/meaning ?

Monticello is bootstrapped Pharo image with Monticello loaded. This image then loads Metacello and the generated image is the image that we call "minimal". It is minimal in sense minimal for common usage.

During Pharo building process we generate: - bootstrapped image - image with Opal that is loaded as binary packages using Hermes - Monticello with only local repositories support - Monticello with network and remote repositories support - Metacello - full Pharo IDE (which is loaded as sequence of several standalone baselines)

Cheers, -- Pavel

Thx,

Sven

Hi Guille, Le 08/10/2017 à 18:24, Guillermo Polito a écrit :

For a really high-level explanation, check the slides in here:

https://www.slideshare.net/GuillePolito1/understanding-the-pharo-dev-process...

Thanks for the pointers. I tried to do something in the Pharo4 days (I still have probably somewhere a start of baselines and package to add to a minimal pharo4 image, then the external project integration changed and this approach would have failed...)

Now, as Pavel says, minimal is an image with metacello (+ its dependencies of course).

This means that you could try to install packages on top of it using baselines.

Cool.

Still, lot of work to do in that front, mainly  - modularisation of the minimal-image packages, so we can build even smaller images  - modularisation and baselines for all full-image packages, so we can build incremental images on a per-user flavour

This is really interesting.

This means of course  - cleaning/sorting initializations  - refactoring packages  - Uncovering hidden and runtime dependencies  - making some analyses on how space is taken (most is methods, tons in kernel and collections ;))

What is not so clear yet from the top of my head: if we distribute minimal images, how can we distribute the pharo libraries that you can load on top of them easily. So far, people using pharo minimal are aware that they are using an alpha version. That means that if they want to load on top of it, let's say, Morphic, they will need to do something like

Metacello new baseline: 'Morphic'; repository: 'github://pharo-project/pharo:development/src'; load

But that means that we'll be loading the so called 'bleeding-edge' of it all the time, and that version may not correspond with the image they are using.

This makes me think we have at some point to revisit the release process so we can have releases internal of libraries such as morphic, athens, fuel, etc, more often.

I think I can suggest a solution. When building an image on the command line (as us Makefile users are keen to do), it is easy to customize the additional packages/baselines you load based on some internal state of the image being built. So, for example, if you tag the minimal image when built with, say v70123, then one can write on the command line: pharo/pharo pharo/Pharo.image --no-default-preferences eval --save Metacello new baseline: \'Morphic\'\; repository: \'github://pharo-project/pharo:\'\, SystemVersion current buildNumber printString\, \'/src\'\; load Et hop, voilà: you get the right Morphic for the minimal image with a minimum amount of distortion. If not, then it could be enough to have the short commit ID of the pharo repository when the minimal image was built: it is enough to get a github:// url to work. Well, if you keep naming your images like that: Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image Then we could even do it this way in the image building makefile (and you don't have anything to do)(*). I'll have a try at it. Thierry (*) External projects would have to sort it out, still. But, IMHO, it is a duty of an external project to be in sync if it wants to stay external...

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Pavel,

I'd probably see some interest in building the GitFileTree-MergeDriver with it. It only requires Monticello.

Thierry

Le 08/10/2017 à 12:41, Pavel Krivanek a écrit :

Hi Sven,

2017-10-07 16:18 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu> <mailto:sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>>>:

    Hi,

    What is the story around PharoMinimal and related images ?

    Is there a writeup somewhere with instructions ?

Right now the minimal (Metacello) image based on Pharo 7 is used only as intermediate step in building of the full Pharo and the only real (successful) attempt to use it for something else is PharoLambda (https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda <https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda>).

In general it can be used for building of own (server) applications. E.g. this way you can install and run Teapot on it:

./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image config http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main <http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main> ConfigurationOfTeapot --install=stable ./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image eval --no-quit "Teapot on GET: '/welcome' -> 'Hello World'; start."

You can load baselines from the Git repositories too but we currently do not have any command line handler for it so you need to do it using "eval" command or *.st flile. Something like this:

Metacello new baseline: 'Seaside3'; repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository'; load

To make it more usable we probably should extend it with SUnit and Fuel. If you want to extend it with some packages from vanilla Pharo, you should load them using FileTree from your local Pharo repository clone.

Gofer it url: 'filetree:///path-to-my-pharo-repository-clone/pharo/src'; package: 'Multilingual-OtherLanguages'; package: 'Multilingual-TextConverterOtherLanguages'; load.

It still needs some care. E.g. some classes from Zinc are not properly initialized (I know about DigitalSignatureAlgorithm MD5NonPrimitive RxMatcher RxParser RxsPredicate SHA1 ZnByteEncoder ZnConstants ZnMimeType ZnNetworkingUtils ZnServer ZnSingleThreadedServer TextConstants TextAction TextStyle).

I tried to load Seaside into it today (from the example above) and it failed (some strange error probalby related to Unicode processing). But we will fix it. If you will tell me what exactly you need we can make it work together as in case of PharoLambda.

    I see that we get **FANTASTIC** startup speed with it:

    $ cat /etc/issue     Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS

    $ ./pharo --version     5.0-201708271955  Sun Aug 27 20:09:20 UTC 2017 gcc 4.6.3 [Production     Spur VM]     CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2265 uuid:     76b62109-629a-4c39-9641-67b53321df9a Aug 27 2017     StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2262 uuid:     8b531242-de02-48aa-b418-8d2dde0bec6c Aug 27 2017     VM: 201708271955 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>     <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>> $ Date: Sun     Aug 27 21:55:26 2017 +0200 $     Plugins: 201708271955 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>     <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>> $     Linux testing-gce-ebf45dd8-6a4c-43a5-abd0-e5d8673d05a4     3.13.0-115-generic #162~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 24 16:47:06 UTC     2017 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux     plugin path:     /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955 [default:     /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955/]

    $ curl get.pharo.org/70-minimal <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal> <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal>> | bash

    ...

    $ ./pharo Pharo.image printVersion     [version] 'Pharo7.0'

'Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.172.sha.d13eed2f80fe19f29fd85ede8c4809d6a6986d4f     (32 Bit)'

    $ time ./pharo Pharo.image eval '5 factorial'     120     real    0m0.083s     user    0m0.034s     sys     0m0.042s

    That is less than 1/10 of a second on a simple server ! Wow.

    Loading new code in that image seem hard though.

    I see that in http://files.pharo.org/image/70/ <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/>     <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/ <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/>> there are Pharomonticello &     Pharometacello variants.

    Any pointers on usage/meaning ?

Monticello is bootstrapped Pharo image with Monticello loaded. This image then loads Metacello and the generated image is the image that we call "minimal". It is minimal in sense minimal for common usage.

During Pharo building process we generate: - bootstrapped image - image with Opal that is loaded as binary packages using Hermes - Monticello with only local repositories support - Monticello with network and remote repositories support - Metacello - full Pharo IDE (which is loaded as sequence of several standalone baselines)

Cheers, -- Pavel

    Thx,

    Sven

--

Guille Polito

Research Engineer

Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille

CRIStAL - UMR 9189

French National Center for Scientific Research - _http://www.cnrs.fr_

*Web:* _http://guillep.github.io_

*Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13

Le 08/10/2017 à 18:55, Guillermo Polito a écrit :

That's still not enough ;)

That's close enough for me.

That will work when the loaded package has no dependencies. Otherwise, imagine projects A and B, and A depending on B's release. every time you release B you need to release all dependencies...

Sort of. If when loading A, A has a correct reference to a stable B release, then that is ok. However, if B is released before A has the time to prepare a compatible version to the latest B, then, yes, that will break, but that also means A isn't properly synchronized with B (which is my point about external projects having to be synchronized). Then A may have in its baseline a check on the last B release known to be compatible...

And, if you use a tag or exact committish to get the Baseline you want to install, still that baseline needs to point to the exact tag/committish of it's dependencies.

Agreed. You can still, in Metacello scripting, point to two (or more) repositories when loading the baseline (and then Metacello would pick the newest one), but: first, I don't know how to do it from inside a Baseline (dependencies), and, second, if filetree is used, then we loose the ability to tell which one is newest. (*)

Or! If you know the dependencies of your baseline you can explicitly use a Metacello's lock. I still believe this is an overkill and I'd like to simplify it, but that's what we have right now.

As I said above, it seems possible if you create a level of indirection when fetching the baseline of a dependency. And saying that, I know how to do it. Within the BaselineOf itself. Thierry

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Guille,

Le 08/10/2017 à 18:24, Guillermo Polito a écrit :

For a really high-level explanation, check the slides in here:

https://www.slideshare.net/GuillePolito1/understanding-the-pharo-dev-process... <https://www.slideshare.net/GuillePolito1/understanding-the-pharo-dev-process...>

Thanks for the pointers. I tried to do something in the Pharo4 days (I still have probably somewhere a start of baselines and package to add to a minimal pharo4 image, then the external project integration changed and this approach would have failed...)

Now, as Pavel says, minimal is an image with metacello (+ its dependencies of course).

This means that you could try to install packages on top of it using baselines.

Cool.

Still, lot of work to do in that front, mainly   - modularisation of the minimal-image packages, so we can build even smaller images   - modularisation and baselines for all full-image packages, so we can build incremental images on a per-user flavour

This is really interesting.

This means of course   - cleaning/sorting initializations   - refactoring packages   - Uncovering hidden and runtime dependencies   - making some analyses on how space is taken (most is methods, tons in kernel and collections ;))

What is not so clear yet from the top of my head: if we distribute minimal images, how can we distribute the pharo libraries that you can load on top of them easily. So far, people using pharo minimal are aware that they are using an alpha version. That means that if they want to load on top of it, let's say, Morphic, they will need to do something like

Metacello new baseline: 'Morphic'; repository: 'github://pharo-project/pharo:development/src'; load

But that means that we'll be loading the so called 'bleeding-edge' of it all the time, and that version may not correspond with the image they are using.

This makes me think we have at some point to revisit the release process so we can have releases internal of libraries such as morphic, athens, fuel, etc, more often.

I think I can suggest a solution. When building an image on the command line (as us Makefile users are keen to do), it is easy to customize the additional packages/baselines you load based on some internal state of the image being built.

So, for example, if you tag the minimal image when built with, say v70123, then one can write on the command line:

pharo/pharo pharo/Pharo.image --no-default-preferences eval --save Metacello new baseline: \'Morphic\'\; repository: \'github://pharo-project/pharo:\'\, SystemVersion current buildNumber printString\, \'/src\'\; load

Et hop, voilà: you get the right Morphic for the minimal image with a minimum amount of distortion.

If not, then it could be enough to have the short commit ID of the pharo repository when the minimal image was built: it is enough to get a github:// url to work.

Well, if you keep naming your images like that:

Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image

Then we could even do it this way in the image building makefile (and you don't have anything to do)(*).

I'll have a try at it.

Thierry

(*) External projects would have to sort it out, still. But, IMHO, it is a duty of an external project to be in sync if it wants to stay external...

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com> <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>>> wrote:

    Hi Pavel,

    I'd probably see some interest in building the     GitFileTree-MergeDriver with it. It only requires Monticello.

    Thierry

    Le 08/10/2017 à 12:41, Pavel Krivanek a écrit :

        Hi Sven,

        2017-10-07 16:18 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>         <mailto:sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> <mailto:sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu> <mailto:sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>>>>:

             Hi,

             What is the story around PharoMinimal and related images ?

             Is there a writeup somewhere with instructions ?

        Right now the minimal (Metacello) image based on Pharo 7 is used         only as intermediate step in building of the full Pharo and the         only real (successful) attempt to use it for something else is         PharoLambda (https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda <https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda>         <https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda <https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda>>).

        In general it can be used for building of own (server)         applications. E.g. this way you can install and run Teapot on it:

        ./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image config http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main <http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main>         <http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main <http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main>>         ConfigurationOfTeapot --install=stable         ./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image eval --no-quit         "Teapot on GET: '/welcome' -> 'Hello World'; start."

        You can load baselines from the Git repositories too but we         currently do not have any command line handler for it so you         need to do it using "eval" command or *.st flile. Something like         this:

        Metacello new         baseline: 'Seaside3';         repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';         load

        To make it more usable we probably should extend it with SUnit         and Fuel. If you want to extend it with some packages from         vanilla Pharo, you should load them using FileTree from your         local Pharo repository clone.

        Gofer it         url: 'filetree:///path-to-my-pharo-repository-clone/pharo/src';         package: 'Multilingual-OtherLanguages';         package: 'Multilingual-TextConverterOtherLanguages';         load.

        It still needs some care. E.g. some classes from Zinc are not         properly initialized (I know about DigitalSignatureAlgorithm         MD5NonPrimitive RxMatcher RxParser RxsPredicate SHA1         ZnByteEncoder ZnConstants ZnMimeType ZnNetworkingUtils ZnServer         ZnSingleThreadedServer TextConstants TextAction TextStyle).

        I tried to load Seaside into it today (from the example above)         and it failed (some strange error probalby related to Unicode         processing). But we will fix it. If you will tell me what         exactly you need we can make it work together as in case of         PharoLambda.

             I see that we get **FANTASTIC** startup speed with it:

             $ cat /etc/issue              Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS

             $ ./pharo --version              5.0-201708271955  Sun Aug 27 20:09:20 UTC 2017 gcc 4.6.3         [Production              Spur VM]              CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2265 uuid:              76b62109-629a-4c39-9641-67b53321df9a Aug 27 2017              StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2262 uuid:              8b531242-de02-48aa-b418-8d2dde0bec6c Aug 27 2017              VM: 201708271955 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>         <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>>

<https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>         <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>>> $ Date: Sun              Aug 27 21:55:26 2017 +0200 $              Plugins: 201708271955 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>         <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>>

<https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>         <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git <https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git>>> $              Linux testing-gce-ebf45dd8-6a4c-43a5-abd0-e5d8673d05a4              3.13.0-115-generic #162~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 24         16:47:06 UTC              2017 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux              plugin path:

/home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955         [default:

/home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955/]

             $ curl get.pharo.org/70-minimal <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal>         <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal>>         <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal>

        <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal <http://get.pharo.org/70-minimal>>> | bash

             ...

             $ ./pharo Pharo.image printVersion              [version] 'Pharo7.0'

'Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.172.sha.d13eed2f80fe19f29fd85ede8c4809d6a6986d4f              (32 Bit)'

             $ time ./pharo Pharo.image eval '5 factorial'              120              real    0m0.083s              user    0m0.034s              sys     0m0.042s

             That is less than 1/10 of a second on a simple server ! Wow.

             Loading new code in that image seem hard though.

             I see that in http://files.pharo.org/image/70/ <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/>         <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/ <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/>>              <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/ <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/>         <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/ <http://files.pharo.org/image/70/>>> there are Pharomonticello &              Pharometacello variants.

             Any pointers on usage/meaning ?

        Monticello is bootstrapped Pharo image with Monticello loaded.         This image then loads Metacello and the generated image is the         image that we call "minimal". It is minimal in sense minimal for         common usage.

        During Pharo building process we generate:         - bootstrapped image         - image with Opal that is loaded as binary packages using Hermes         - Monticello with only local repositories support         - Monticello with network and remote repositories support         - Metacello         - full Pharo IDE (which is loaded as sequence of several         standalone baselines)

        Cheers,         -- Pavel

             Thx,

             Sven

--

Guille Polito

Research Engineer

Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille

CRIStAL - UMR 9189

French National Center for Scientific Research - _http://www.cnrs.fr_

*Web:* _http://guillep.github.io_

*Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13 <tel:%2B33%2006%2052%2070%2066%2013>

--

Guille Polito

Research Engineer

Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille

CRIStAL - UMR 9189

French National Center for Scientific Research - _http://www.cnrs.fr_

*Web:* _http://guillep.github.io_

*Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13

2017-10-08 19:00 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:

Hi Pavel,

Thanks a lot for the explanation. To summarise: 70-minimal is the one with monticello and metacello in it that can load code via the config handler.

I was confused, because that failed for me.

Now, first doing

$ ./pharo pharo-minimal.image eval 'ZnMimeType initialize'

fixed my loading problem. I also did the following because some of my project don't separate tests (I known ;-)

$ ./pharo pharo-minimal.image eval --save 'Object subclass: #TestCase'

With those fixes I was able to load different projects

$ ./pharo pharo-minimal config http://mc.stfx.eu/Neo ConfigurationOfZTimestamp --install=stable

$ ./pharo pharo-minimal config http://mc.stfx.eu/Neo ConfigurationOfNeoConsole --install=bleedingEdge

The image remains equally fast in startup

$ time ./pharo pharo-minimal.image eval ZTimestamp now 2017-10-08T16:55:00Z real 0m0.062s user 0m0.025s sys 0m0.029s

And it works perfectly as a server, like

$ ./pharo pharo-minimal eval --no-quit 'NeoConsoleTelnetServer new start' &

$ telnet localhost 4999 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. Neo Console Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.172.sha.d13eed2f80fe19f29fd85ede8c4809d6a6986d4f (32 Bit)

...

get known metrics: system.status - Simple system status memory.total - Total allocated memory memory.free - Free memory memory.gc - Garbage collect, return free memory system.uptime - Image uptime human readeable system.uptimeseconds - Image uptime seconds system.date - Current date system.time - Current time system.timestamp - Current timestamp process.count - Current process count process.list - Current list of processes system.version - Image version info system.mcversions - Monticello packages version info get process.list Delay Scheduling Process Low Space Watcher Idle Process WeakArray Finalization Process NeoConsoleTelnetServer port 4999 NeoConsoleTelnetServer port 4999 Connection Handler SessionManager default startupList collect: #handledId

#(#SmallInteger #Delay #ProcessorScheduler #OSPlatform #FileLocator #MCMethodDefinition #WeakArray #FileStream #MultiByteFileStream #EndianDetector #Symbol #LanguageEnvironment #Stdio #NonInteractiveTranscript #WeakFinalizationList #DiskStore #BasicCommandLineHandler #SourceFileArray #ASTCache #UUIDGenerator #InternetConfiguration #ZnLogEvent #ZnServer #Color #UIManagerSessionHandler #ZTimestamp)

...

Bye! Connection closed by foreign host.

Great!

Image size remains ~11Mb.

I suppose it can be smaller with the release cleanup.

Very nice !

About the class initialisations. Why were they not done already ? You seem to have a list of them, why not make sure they are executed when creating the image ? I guess I could rewrite some of my code to do lazy initialization class side but I should not have to do that, should I ?

During the baselines loading some of the initializations are done manually because of the dependencies and the mentioned classes are initialized later during Morphic loading. We should check them and move them to a proper location. -- Pavel

Sven

...

On 8 Oct 2017, at 12:41, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Sven,

2017-10-07 16:18 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: Hi,

What is the story around PharoMinimal and related images ?

Is there a writeup somewhere with instructions ?

Right now the minimal (Metacello) image based on Pharo 7 is used only as intermediate step in building of the full Pharo and the only real (successful) attempt to use it for something else is PharoLambda ( https://gitlab.com/macta/PharoLambda).

In general it can be used for building of own (server) applications. E.g. this way you can install and run Teapot on it:

./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image config http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/zeroflag/Teapot/main ConfigurationOfTeapot --install=stable ./pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-d13eed2.image eval --no-quit "Teapot on GET: '/welcome' -> 'Hello World'; start."

You can load baselines from the Git repositories too but we currently do not have any command line handler for it so you need to do it using "eval" command or *.st flile. Something like this:

Metacello new baseline: 'Seaside3'; repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository'; load

To make it more usable we probably should extend it with SUnit and Fuel. If you want to extend it with some packages from vanilla Pharo, you should load them using FileTree from your local Pharo repository clone.

Gofer it url: 'filetree:///path-to-my-pharo-repository-clone/pharo/src'; package: 'Multilingual-OtherLanguages'; package: 'Multilingual-TextConverterOtherLanguages'; load.

It still needs some care. E.g. some classes from Zinc are not properly initialized (I know about DigitalSignatureAlgorithm MD5NonPrimitive RxMatcherRxParser RxsPredicate SHA1 ZnByteEncoder ZnConstants ZnMimeType ZnNetworkingUtils ZnServer ZnSingleThreadedServer TextConstants TextActionTextStyle).

I tried to load Seaside into it today (from the example above) and it failed (some strange error probalby related to Unicode processing). But we will fix it. If you will tell me what exactly you need we can make it work together as in case of PharoLambda.

I see that we get **FANTASTIC** startup speed with it:

$ cat /etc/issue Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS

$ ./pharo --version 5.0-201708271955 Sun Aug 27 20:09:20 UTC 2017 gcc 4.6.3 [Production Spur VM] CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2265 uuid: 76b62109-629a-4c39-9641-67b53321df9a Aug 27 2017 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2262 uuid: 8b531242-de02-48aa-b418-8d2dde0bec6c Aug 27 2017 VM: 201708271955 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ Date: Sun Aug 27 21:55:26 2017 +0200 $ Plugins: 201708271955 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk- vm.git $ Linux testing-gce-ebf45dd8-6a4c-43a5-abd0-e5d8673d05a4 3.13.0-115-generic #162~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 24 16:47:06 UTC 2017 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955 [default: /home/audio359/pharo7/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201708271955/]

$ curl get.pharo.org/70-minimal | bash ...

$ ./pharo Pharo.image printVersion [version] 'Pharo7.0' 'Pharo-7.0+alpha.build.172.sha. d13eed2f80fe19f29fd85ede8c4809d6a6986d4f (32 Bit)'

$ time ./pharo Pharo.image eval '5 factorial' 120 real 0m0.083s user 0m0.034s sys 0m0.042s

That is less than 1/10 of a second on a simple server ! Wow.

Loading new code in that image seem hard though.

I see that in http://files.pharo.org/image/70/ there are Pharomonticello & Pharometacello variants.

Any pointers on usage/meaning ?

Monticello is bootstrapped Pharo image with Monticello loaded. This image then loads Metacello and the generated image is the image that we call "minimal". It is minimal in sense minimal for common usage.

During Pharo building process we generate: - bootstrapped image - image with Opal that is loaded as binary packages using Hermes - Monticello with only local repositories support - Monticello with network and remote repositories support - Metacello - full Pharo IDE (which is loaded as sequence of several standalone baselines)

Cheers, -- Pavel

Thx,

Sven

2017-10-14 22:04 GMT+02:00 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu>:

At this image size, does it come with Morph?

No, Morphic is not included. -- Pavel

Hilaire

Le 08/10/2017 à 19:00, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit :

...

Image size remains ~11Mb.

Very nice !

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

2017-10-14 22:58 GMT+02:00 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu>:

Ok.

Earlier DrGeo image based on pharo (around 2010 time) shrinked around 8MB[1], Morph included.

Reduction of image size is only a side effect, not our main goal. It can probably be cleaned more and with conversion to Spur all images are bigger now. Do you know that there was a version of Cuis that had working Morphic in image of size only 2MB? http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Cuis3.1r3.zip use sources from: http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Cuis3.1-0850.zip -- Pavel

[1] https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/file/27318/DrGeo.ap p-10.08.zip

Le 14/10/2017 à 22:26, Pavel Krivanek a écrit :

...

2017-10-14 22:04 GMT+02:00 Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu <mailto: hilaire@drgeo.eu>>:

At this image size, does it come with Morph?

No, Morphic is not included.

-- Pavel

-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

If you will tell me what exactly you need we can make it work together as in case of PharoLambda.

Even when this offer from Pavel was for Sven I would like to ask: What about a minimal "TelePharo ready image" that one can remotely connect to and then debug, enhance, ... Thanks T.

Cool, thanks! Am 13.10.2017 um 08:32 schrieb Stephane Ducasse:

It is in the roadmap.

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:

...

...

If you will tell me what exactly you need we can make it work together as in case of PharoLambda. Even when this offer from Pavel was for Sven I would like to ask: What about a minimal "TelePharo ready image" that one can remotely connect to and then debug, enhance, ...

Thanks T.

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-workingRoadmaps/blob/master/Pharo7/RO... 2017-10-13 14:57 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:

Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote

...

It is in the roadmap.

Is this available online somewhere? The only ML thread I found was from 2011 and I didn't see it on the website…

----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html