[Pharo-project] Pharo-beginner mailing list ?
Hi all I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list? Stef
Hi Maybe it would be better to name it pharo-user(s) and leave this list for the developers of pharo? Because "beginner" has too narrow meaning. George 2009/12/30 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Ok (we are all beginners :) at least I'm :) ). On Dec 30, 2009, at 1:35 PM, George Herolyants wrote:
Hi
Maybe it would be better to name it pharo-user(s) and leave this list for the developers of pharo? Because "beginner" has too narrow meaning.
George
2009/12/30 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
+1 for pharo-users mailing list. Excellent idea! On 30 Dec 2009, at 09:42, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Ok (we are all beginners :) at least I'm :) ).
On Dec 30, 2009, at 1:35 PM, George Herolyants wrote:
Hi
Maybe it would be better to name it pharo-user(s) and leave this list for the developers of pharo? Because "beginner" has too narrow meaning.
George
2009/12/30 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Johan Fabry jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
I come a little late for comment (hard day :-( ) so, I'll take profit of Stef's remarks to bring up an ancillary question to the group. Letting out the humble inclusions of a lot of hot shot programmers as "beginners" and trying this from a Requirements Elicitation exercise: What will we consider a *beginner*? People that never learned a programming language and need tutoring in basics? People that know other programming languages? Being so shall separate the efforts to teach the ones that know OO from the ones are knowledgeable in procedural ones¹? People already knowing Smalltalk but new to Pharo? I feel that in addition to mailing list (and perhaps newsgroup), we should assemble a CMS for spreading the basics and using the features of the system to direct prospective users according to their needs/wishes. my 0.019999.... -- Cesar Rabak [1] This angst was triggered attending to a speech in Smalltalks 2009 Em 30/12/2009 10:42, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr > escreveu: Ok (we are all beginners :) at least I'm :) ). On Dec 30, 2009, at 1:35 PM, George Herolyants wrote:
Hi
Maybe it would be better to name it pharo-user(s) and leave this list for the developers of pharo? Because "beginner" has too narrow meaning.
George
2009/12/30 Stéphane Ducasse :
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Dec 30, 2009, at 8:38 PM, csrabak@bol.com.br wrote:
I come a little late for comment (hard day :-( ) so, I'll take profit of Stef's remarks to bring up an ancillary question to the group.
Letting out the humble inclusions of a lot of hot shot programmers as "beginners" and trying this from a Requirements Elicitation exercise:
What will we consider a *beginner*?
everybody that want to be considered as - not knowing smalltalk - not knowing pharo - programming language learner. Stef
People that never learned a programming language and need tutoring in basics?
People that know other programming languages? Being so shall separate the efforts to teach the ones that know OO from the ones are knowledgeable in procedural ones¹?
People already knowing Smalltalk but new to Pharo?
I feel that in addition to mailing list (and perhaps newsgroup), we should assemble a CMS for spreading the basics and using the features of the system to direct prospective users according to their needs/wishes.
my 0.019999....
-- Cesar Rabak
[1] This angst was triggered attending to a speech in Smalltalks 2009
Em 30/12/2009 10:42, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr > escreveu:
Ok (we are all beginners :) at least I'm :) ).
On Dec 30, 2009, at 1:35 PM, George Herolyants wrote:
Hi
Maybe it would be better to name it pharo-user(s) and leave this list for the developers of pharo? Because "beginner" has too narrow meaning.
George
2009/12/30 Stéphane Ducasse :
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Hi Stef, More than beginners, I would like mailing list for non-developers, i.e. bussines people, project managers/leaders, for discussing project feasibility with Pharo, sharing work experiences, etc. This mailing list would not contain discussions about the deep internals of Pharo (we cannot hide forever inside those technical details which nobody understands :). It is important for people with bussines or marketing vocabulary to know how to sell a product like Pharo to his coleagues or inside a company. Besides, there are a lot of people which doesn't like mailing lists. They simply won't subscribe and IMHO it has nothing to do with the technical quality of individuals, this is a matter of customs (check out all of those .Net/Java/SQL forums out there like codeguru.com or db4o.com). Maybe in the middle or long term, having a web forum would be a good idea. Regards, and happy new year. Hernán 2009/12/30 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@...> writes:
Besides, there are a lot of people which doesn't like mailing lists. They simply won't subscribe and IMHO it has nothing to do with the technical quality of individuals, this is a matter of customs (check out all of those .Net/Java/SQL forums out there like codeguru.com or db4o.com). Maybe in the middle or long term, having a web forum would be a good idea.
Good point. For example, one thing we could do is pushing Stackoverflow. They have a large userbase and excellent google ranks. When you ask a question on SO, it appears *immediately* on google! For Phexample we already tell folks to go and ask questions on SO. No one has done sofar, but that is mainly due to the limited usebase (just me, Niko and Cami sofar). You can follow all questions with one tag on SO as an RSS feed http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/smalltalk http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/squeak http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/pharo --AA
Adrian Kuhn wrote:
For example, one thing we could do is pushing Stackoverflow. They have a large userbase and excellent google ranks. When you ask a question on SO, it appears *immediately* on google!
StackOverflow is good. I recently asked a Pharo question there about missing browser features (can't show/exclude methods from superclasses) and got a few responses, so people will read Smalltalk questions. Steve
Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
Hi Stef, More than beginners, I would like mailing list for non-developers, i.e. bussines people, project managers/leaders, for discussing project feasibility with Pharo, sharing work experiences, etc. This mailing list would not contain discussions about the deep internals of Pharo (we cannot hide forever inside those technical details which nobody understands :). It is important for people with bussines or marketing vocabulary to know how to sell a product like Pharo to his coleagues or inside a company.
Besides, there are a lot of people which doesn't like mailing lists. They simply won't subscribe and IMHO it has nothing to do with the technical quality of individuals, this is a matter of customs (check out all of those .Net/Java/SQL forums out there like codeguru.com or db4o.com). Maybe in the middle or long term, having a web forum would be a good idea.
Regards, and happy new year.
Hernán
+1 on this train of thought I also see a difference between the people building/maintaining Pharo(-Core) & Pharo(-dev/web) and those using Pharo. I am not a mailing-list person - I prefer the online (Nabble) discussion forum - so I don't have email overload problems but a separate forum would be useful. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Pharo-beginner-mailing-list-tp4231887p4235808.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
+1 Its ok to separate the development of pharo from the use/promotion/welcome to Pharo. Just don't let this become a mess with dozens of lists with a couple of posts each. This won't help Pharo cohesion in the long term. Miguel Cobá On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. We don't loose nothing. Only the time will say if this was a good idea or not :) On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Miguel Cobá <miguel.coba@gmail.com> wrote:
+1
Its ok to separate the development of pharo from the use/promotion/welcome to Pharo.
Just don't let this become a mess with dozens of lists with a couple of posts each. This won't help Pharo cohesion in the long term.
Miguel Cobá
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
My point is that some people may be bored by too technical discussions Miguel I agree on the number of list. We should check if there is enough people. @Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. 3min :)
We don't loose nothing. Only the time will say if this was a good idea or not :)
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Miguel Cobá <miguel.coba@gmail.com> wrote: +1
Its ok to separate the development of pharo from the use/promotion/welcome to Pharo.
Just don't let this become a mess with dozens of lists with a couple of posts each. This won't help Pharo cohesion in the long term.
Miguel Cobá
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
How do we subscribe? On 30 Dec 2009, at 14:09, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
My point is that some people may be bored by too technical discussions Miguel I agree on the number of list. We should check if there is enough people. @Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. 3min :)
-- Johan Fabry jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:
How do we subscribe?
On 30 Dec 2009, at 14:09, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
My point is that some people may be bored by too technical discussions Miguel I agree on the number of list. We should check if there is enough people. @Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. 3min :)
Yes, but after creating the list, I think you should also: - Send an ANN to this list, ESUG and even Squeak mailing lists. - Add that information to http://www.pharo-project.org/community - Add gmane and nabble bots to it - Some people can post in their blogs about it Cheers, Mariano
-- Johan Fabry jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry<http://dcc.uchile.cl/%7Ejfabry> PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
ok let us wait to get more feedback on the idea... Stef On Dec 30, 2009, at 6:39 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:
How do we subscribe?
On 30 Dec 2009, at 14:09, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
My point is that some people may be bored by too technical discussions Miguel I agree on the number of list. We should check if there is enough people. @Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. 3min :)
Yes, but after creating the list, I think you should also:
- Send an ANN to this list, ESUG and even Squeak mailing lists. - Add that information to http://www.pharo-project.org/community - Add gmane and nabble bots to it - Some people can post in their blogs about it
Cheers,
Mariano
-- Johan Fabry jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
yes ;) I was just explained why I said one hour :) On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
ok let us wait to get more feedback on the idea...
Stef On Dec 30, 2009, at 6:39 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl>
wrote:
How do we subscribe?
On 30 Dec 2009, at 14:09, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
My point is that some people may be bored by too technical discussions Miguel I agree on the number of list. We should check if there is enough people. @Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. 3min :)
Yes, but after creating the list, I think you should also:
- Send an ANN to this list, ESUG and even Squeak mailing lists. - Add that information to http://www.pharo-project.org/community - Add gmane and nabble bots to it - Some people can post in their blogs about it
Cheers,
Mariano
-- Johan Fabry jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry<http://dcc.uchile.cl/%7Ejfabry> PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Is there a specific mailing list for the PBE readers? ifFalse: this could be a good place where the readers can ask :) I saw sbe-discussion@iam.unibe.ch but I am not sure what that mailing list it is about. Is it for final users of for the authors ? Cheers Mariano On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
yes ;) I was just explained why I said one hour :)
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
ok let us wait to get more feedback on the idea...
Stef On Dec 30, 2009, at 6:39 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl>
wrote:
How do we subscribe?
On 30 Dec 2009, at 14:09, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
My point is that some people may be bored by too technical discussions Miguel I agree on the number of list. We should check if there is enough people. @Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. 3min :)
Yes, but after creating the list, I think you should also:
- Send an ANN to this list, ESUG and even Squeak mailing lists. - Add that information to http://www.pharo-project.org/community - Add gmane and nabble bots to it - Some people can post in their blogs about it
Cheers,
Mariano
-- Johan Fabry jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry<http://dcc.uchile.cl/%7Ejfabry> PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
sbe discussion is a list so that people can report problems and discuss with us. we have our own internal one for the books. Stef On Dec 30, 2009, at 7:57 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Is there a specific mailing list for the PBE readers? ifFalse: this could be a good place where the readers can ask :) I saw sbe-discussion@iam.unibe.ch but I am not sure what that mailing list it is about. Is it for final users of for the authors ?
Cheers
Mariano
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote: yes ;) I was just explained why I said one hour :)
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote: ok let us wait to get more feedback on the idea...
Stef On Dec 30, 2009, at 6:39 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:
How do we subscribe?
On 30 Dec 2009, at 14:09, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
My point is that some people may be bored by too technical discussions Miguel I agree on the number of list. We should check if there is enough people. @Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. 3min :)
Yes, but after creating the list, I think you should also:
- Send an ANN to this list, ESUG and even Squeak mailing lists. - Add that information to http://www.pharo-project.org/community - Add gmane and nabble bots to it - Some people can post in their blogs about it
Cheers,
Mariano
-- Johan Fabry jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Hi guys! Maybe it could be good idea to rename this list to pharo-dev? pharo-user, pharo-dev, a perfect balance in name and content :) Best regards Janko On 30. 12. 2009 18:46, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
ok let us wait to get more feedback on the idea...
Stef
-- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi guys!
Maybe it could be good idea to rename this list to pharo-dev?
pharo-user, pharo-dev, a perfect balance in name and content :)
Best regards Janko
Maybe even: - Pharo-Core: maintaining and publishing Core/Dev/Web images - Pharo-IDE: Pharo usage, maintaining and publishing tools/systems/components (tools/components can even be sub-groups?) -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Pharo-beginner-mailing-list-tp4231887p4235829.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Janko, As in Smalltalk we really care about names, I vote for maintaining the name "project" as the intended audience of this list is to gather developers and early users so even who has less skill or inclination to do coding can contribute with suggestions and bug reports. my 0.019999.... -- Cesar Rabak Em 31/12/2009 05:48, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si> escreveu: Hi guys! Maybe it could be good idea to rename this list to pharo-dev? pharo-user, pharo-dev, a perfect balance in name and content :) Best regards Janko On 30. 12. 2009 18:46, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
ok let us wait to get more feedback on the idea...
Stef
-- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@...> writes:
@Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
You ask, they answer (or if you are in for points: they ask, you answer). It is the major *open and free* site for questions & answers regarding programming. Well, I will not attempt to explain stackoverflow beyond that... A general web 2.0 platform can of course not replace a dedicated community platform. But being present on the *now* web (average time for a answer on SO is about 2 minutes!) is a must these days. A strategy for the pharo twitter account might also improve visibility as well as accessibility. Linking to awesome mailing list or blog posts, both from Pharo, Smalltalk *and* outside, would be my suggestion. Sorry to say, but mailing lists are parent's technology :) --AA
On 31/12/2009 00:34, Adrian Kuhn wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@...> writes:
@Adrian: the forum idea is nice but I do not why it did not work for Smalltalk. I went to the site you mentioned but I could not get how it works.
You ask, they answer (or if you are in for points: they ask, you answer). It is the major *open and free* site for questions & answers regarding programming. Well, I will not attempt to explain stackoverflow beyond that...
A general web 2.0 platform can of course not replace a dedicated community platform. But being present on the *now* web (average time for a answer on SO is about 2 minutes!) is a must these days. A strategy for the pharo twitter account might also improve visibility as well as accessibility. Linking to awesome mailing list or blog posts, both from Pharo, Smalltalk *and* outside, would be my suggestion.
Sorry to say, but mailing lists are parent's technology :)
I have to admit I dislike web forums and actually feel they're kinda primitive due to the way you need to go to each of them to keep up instead of having everything come to you in one place. Wasn't one of the points of computers to get rid of manually doing everything yourself like this? ;)
I _think_ it is a lot of hours of work. Once the mailing list starts, we'll to monitor it. With some periodicity we should assemble a FAQ, also because the proper nature of the list it is possible incorrect advice be posted by other members and we need to monitor and suggest the correct content as well. Thinking in retrospect I believe this should be launched when we have Pharo 1.0 released and we can stabilize documentation, procedures, etc. my 0.019999... -- Cesar Rabak Em 30/12/2009 14:16, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck@gmail.com > escreveu: +1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. We don't loose nothing. Only the time will say if this was a good idea or not :) On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Miguel Cobá <miguel.coba@gmail.com> wrote: +1 Its ok to separate the development of pharo from the use/promotion/welcome to Pharo. Just don't let this become a mess with dozens of lists with a couple of posts each. This won't help Pharo cohesion in the long term. Miguel Cobá On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
have a look at squeak -beginners people just ask questions and other reply. it is low profile from an architecture point of view. On Dec 30, 2009, at 8:42 PM, csrabak@bol.com.br wrote:
I _think_ it is a lot of hours of work. Once the mailing list starts, we'll to monitor it. With some periodicity we should assemble a FAQ, also because the proper nature of the list it is possible incorrect advice be posted by other members and we need to monitor and suggest the correct content as well.
Thinking in retrospect I believe this should be launched when we have Pharo 1.0 released and we can stabilize documentation, procedures, etc.
my 0.019999...
-- Cesar Rabak
Em 30/12/2009 14:16, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck@gmail.com > escreveu:
+1 I would create it. It is not more than 1 hour or so of work. We don't loose nothing. Only the time will say if this was a good idea or not :)
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Miguel Cobá <miguel.coba@gmail.com> wrote:
+1
Its ok to separate the development of pharo from the use/promotion/welcome to Pharo.
Just don't let this become a mess with dozens of lists with a couple of posts each. This won't help Pharo cohesion in the long term.
Miguel Cobá
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
I would strongly opt against a pharo beginners list. I think the squeak beginners list is the right place to be. To fork off the code from squeak was a good idea. But it is also troublesome as we experienced already. Forking off everything or just doubling everything won't bring any benefit. A beginner won't differ between squeak and pharo. A beginner stumples with this particular environment regardless if it is squeak or pharo. So please let us just try to join forces. Norbert On 30.12.2009, at 12:41, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi all
I remember that the squeak-beginner mailing-list (our ideas) was a huge success since it enabled people to ask questions and have less mails. So a question to you: do you think that it would be good to have a pharo-beginner mailing list?
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
participants (13)
-
Adrian Kuhn -
csrabak＠bol.com.br -
Douglas Brebner -
Geert Claes -
George Herolyants -
Hernán Morales Durand -
Janko Mivšek -
Johan Fabry -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Miguel Cobá -
Norbert Hartl -
Stephen Taylor -
Stéphane Ducasse