[Pharo-project] I cannot believe that Browser is relying on Object>>initialExtent
Stef, And you were ready to give up on Pharo... :) A lot of Squeak code looks like it was written w/o thought of exceptions. There is probably good reason for that, in that much of it comes from before the days of structured exception handling, weak collections, etc. In fairness, having a browser, or worse yet a debugger, quit over a bad receiver problem can turn ugly. By putting things in Object, those types of bugs would be largely avoided. I'm not saying it is a good way to work, but it is wide spread in Squeak. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:36 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Subject: [Pharo-project] I cannot believe that Browser is relying on Object>>initialExtent argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
:) I really think that putting a method in object just because may be at one point a wrong object may receive a message should be avoided. Just already puting initialExtent into CodeHolder fixes some use cases....
Stef,
And you were ready to give up on Pharo... :)
:) Now I start to have fun and I feel that the board is moving and ready for several turn around the earth (funny for a lighthouse).
A lot of Squeak code looks like it was written w/o thought of exceptions. There is probably good reason for that, in that much of it comes from before the days of structured exception handling, weak collections, etc. In fairness, having a browser, or worse yet a debugger, quit over a bad receiver problem can turn ugly. By putting things in Object, those types of bugs would be largely avoided. I'm not saying it is a good way to work, but it is wide spread in Squeak.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:36 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Subject: [Pharo-project] I cannot believe that Browser is relying on Object>>initialExtent
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Stef, Agreed - Object is not a good home for methods that clearly have no place there. I'm not excusing the poor practice, but I _think_ I understand how it came about. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:33 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] I cannot believe that Browser is relying on Object>>initialExtent :) I really think that putting a method in object just because may be at one point a wrong object may receive a message should be avoided. Just already puting initialExtent into CodeHolder fixes some use cases....
Stef,
And you were ready to give up on Pharo... :)
:) Now I start to have fun and I feel that the board is moving and ready for several turn around the earth (funny for a lighthouse).
A lot of Squeak code looks like it was written w/o thought of exceptions. There is probably good reason for that, in that much of it comes from before the days of structured exception handling, weak collections, etc. In fairness, having a browser, or worse yet a debugger, quit over a bad receiver problem can turn ugly. By putting things in Object, those types of bugs would be largely avoided. I'm not saying it is a good way to work, but it is wide spread in Squeak.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:36 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Subject: [Pharo-project] I cannot believe that Browser is relying on Object>>initialExtent
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Yes I was implying anything else. On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Agreed - Object is not a good home for methods that clearly have no place there. I'm not excusing the poor practice, but I _think_ I understand how it came about.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:33 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] I cannot believe that Browser is relying on Object>>initialExtent
:)
I really think that putting a method in object just because may be at one point a wrong object may receive a message should be avoided. Just already puting initialExtent into CodeHolder fixes some use cases....
Stef,
And you were ready to give up on Pharo... :)
:) Now I start to have fun and I feel that the board is moving and ready for several turn around the earth (funny for a lighthouse).
A lot of Squeak code looks like it was written w/o thought of exceptions. There is probably good reason for that, in that much of it comes from before the days of structured exception handling, weak collections, etc. In fairness, having a browser, or worse yet a debugger, quit over a bad receiver problem can turn ugly. By putting things in Object, those types of bugs would be largely avoided. I'm not saying it is a good way to work, but it is wide spread in Squeak.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:36 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Subject: [Pharo-project] I cannot believe that Browser is relying on Object>>initialExtent
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
And #defaultColor and #inform: and #modelSleep and #modelWakeUp and #modelWakeUpIn: and ... 2010/1/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
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-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
hold on :) we will kill a lot of them one at a time with a nice chainsaw :) Stef On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
And #defaultColor and #inform: and #modelSleep and #modelWakeUp and #modelWakeUpIn: and ...
2010/1/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
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-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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Kill them , please. :) I dreaming about the time, when every method in Object will have a very strong reasons to stay there. 2010/1/13 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
hold on :) we will kill a lot of them one at a time with a nice chainsaw :)
Stef
On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
And #defaultColor and #inform: and #modelSleep and #modelWakeUp and #modelWakeUpIn: and ...
2010/1/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
we will believe me :) On Jan 13, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
Kill them , please. :) I dreaming about the time, when every method in Object will have a very strong reasons to stay there.
2010/1/13 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
hold on :) we will kill a lot of them one at a time with a nice chainsaw :)
Stef
On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
And #defaultColor and #inform: and #modelSleep and #modelWakeUp and #modelWakeUpIn: and ...
2010/1/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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I share this dream and invite you folks to envision a such implementation that becomes an example of good OOP techniques. Nowadays we have to avoid using Object to show any good practice. . . Em 13/01/2010 07:54, Igor Stasenko < siguctua@gmail.com > escreveu: Kill them , please. :) I dreaming about the time, when every method in Object will have a very strong reasons to stay there. 2010/1/13 Stéphane Ducasse :
hold on :) we will kill a lot of them one at a time with a nice chainsaw :)
Stef
On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
And #defaultColor and #inform: and #modelSleep and #modelWakeUp and #modelWakeUpIn: and ...
2010/1/12 Stéphane Ducasse :
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Kill them , please. :) I dreaming about the time, when every method in Object will have a very strong reasons to stay there. 2010/1/13 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
hold on :) we will kill a lot of them one at a time with a nice chainsaw :)
Stef
On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
And #defaultColor and #inform: and #modelSleep and #modelWakeUp and #modelWakeUpIn: and ...
2010/1/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
argh....... May be not putting everything in Object would help.
Stef
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
participants (5)
-
csrabak＠bol.com.br -
Igor Stasenko -
Lukas Renggli -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Stéphane Ducasse