[Pharo-project] Wishes for new ClassBuilder (toon?)
Hi guys. As part of the Fuel project, one of the things we want to do (in fact, it is done) is to serialize classes. There want to have 3 possibilities: 1) Do something like DiskProxy where you only save its global name and some selector to run when deserialing it 2) Really searialize the whole class (following method dictionary, compiled methods, class pools and friend, etc) so that you can deserialize it in another image where such class is not present. 3) Do the same as 2 but validating and installing the class in the system. For 2) what we want to do is just to serialize the class as any other object. As a result, we get a Class instance. Nothing is validated, nothing is added in Smalltalk globals, nothing is compiled. We do not use ClassBuilder at all. For 3) we want to do 2) plus validating and installing the class in the system. For validating I mean ALL the validations that the class builder does when creating or modifying a class. And for "installing in the system" I mean notify, put in Smalltalk globals, re compile what is needed, etc... ClassBuilder seems to do 2) and 3) together. So, what I would love to have in a new class builder is to have those two things separated. So that I can say to an object ClassManager validate: aClass or ClassManager installClassOnSystem: aClass. Do you think such thing is possible? Right now going through ClassBuilder and understand all the validations it does is really complicated :( Thanks in advance, -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
The PlayOut classbuilder indeed separates this nicely. We have the distinction between the "installer" and the "builder". The builder uses an "installer" as a client and notifies it about stuff that happens. For example we have an "anonymous subclass builder" that's implemented like that. It basically just ignores most of the notifications of the builder since it doesn't really do anything. ... but of course this means that you need PlayOut ;) You can get an image at http://pinocchio.unibe.ch/~tverwaes/PlayOut.tar.gz caveats: - At the moment that system doesn't validate everything yet like the old classbuilder (since I wanted to freely change classes with any name) - it doesn't handle obsolete subclasses yet. Oh well ;) - it's still intertwined with our slots implementation, so it relies on Helvetia. But that can/should/will be fixed without changing the API. cheers, Toon On 05/18/2011 03:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. As part of the Fuel project, one of the things we want to do (in fact, it is done) is to serialize classes. There want to have 3 possibilities: 1) Do something like DiskProxy where you only save its global name and some selector to run when deserialing it 2) Really searialize the whole class (following method dictionary, compiled methods, class pools and friend, etc) so that you can deserialize it in another image where such class is not present. 3) Do the same as 2 but validating and installing the class in the system.
For 2) what we want to do is just to serialize the class as any other object. As a result, we get a Class instance. Nothing is validated, nothing is added in Smalltalk globals, nothing is compiled. We do not use ClassBuilder at all.
For 3) we want to do 2) plus validating and installing the class in the system. For validating I mean ALL the validations that the class builder does when creating or modifying a class. And for "installing in the system" I mean notify, put in Smalltalk globals, re compile what is needed, etc...
ClassBuilder seems to do 2) and 3) together. So, what I would love to have in a new class builder is to have those two things separated. So that I can say to an object ClassManager validate: aClass or ClassManager installClassOnSystem: aClass.
Do you think such thing is possible? Right now going through ClassBuilder and understand all the validations it does is really complicated :(
Thanks in advance,
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
toon I looked at the code but do you have tests for the new class builder? I could not find them. Stef On May 18, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
The PlayOut classbuilder indeed separates this nicely. We have the distinction between the "installer" and the "builder". The builder uses an "installer" as a client and notifies it about stuff that happens.
For example we have an "anonymous subclass builder" that's implemented like that. It basically just ignores most of the notifications of the builder since it doesn't really do anything.
... but of course this means that you need PlayOut ;) You can get an image at http://pinocchio.unibe.ch/~tverwaes/PlayOut.tar.gz
caveats: - At the moment that system doesn't validate everything yet like the old classbuilder (since I wanted to freely change classes with any name) - it doesn't handle obsolete subclasses yet. Oh well ;) - it's still intertwined with our slots implementation, so it relies on Helvetia. But that can/should/will be fixed without changing the API.
cheers, Toon
On 05/18/2011 03:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. As part of the Fuel project, one of the things we want to do (in fact, it is done) is to serialize classes. There want to have 3 possibilities: 1) Do something like DiskProxy where you only save its global name and some selector to run when deserialing it 2) Really searialize the whole class (following method dictionary, compiled methods, class pools and friend, etc) so that you can deserialize it in another image where such class is not present. 3) Do the same as 2 but validating and installing the class in the system.
For 2) what we want to do is just to serialize the class as any other object. As a result, we get a Class instance. Nothing is validated, nothing is added in Smalltalk globals, nothing is compiled. We do not use ClassBuilder at all.
For 3) we want to do 2) plus validating and installing the class in the system. For validating I mean ALL the validations that the class builder does when creating or modifying a class. And for "installing in the system" I mean notify, put in Smalltalk globals, re compile what is needed, etc...
ClassBuilder seems to do 2) and 3) together. So, what I would love to have in a new class builder is to have those two things separated. So that I can say to an object ClassManager validate: aClass or ClassManager installClassOnSystem: aClass.
Do you think such thing is possible? Right now going through ClassBuilder and understand all the validations it does is really complicated :(
Thanks in advance,
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Nope. That needs to be added. Sorry. If you have tests for the old classbuilder we can port them. Otherwise I can take the time at the next print I attend to do it; maybe together with somebody else. Toon On 05/18/2011 09:38 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
toon I looked at the code but do you have tests for the new class builder? I could not find them.
Stef On May 18, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
The PlayOut classbuilder indeed separates this nicely. We have the distinction between the "installer" and the "builder". The builder uses an "installer" as a client and notifies it about stuff that happens.
For example we have an "anonymous subclass builder" that's implemented like that. It basically just ignores most of the notifications of the builder since it doesn't really do anything.
... but of course this means that you need PlayOut ;) You can get an image at http://pinocchio.unibe.ch/~tverwaes/PlayOut.tar.gz
caveats: - At the moment that system doesn't validate everything yet like the old classbuilder (since I wanted to freely change classes with any name) - it doesn't handle obsolete subclasses yet. Oh well ;) - it's still intertwined with our slots implementation, so it relies on Helvetia. But that can/should/will be fixed without changing the API.
cheers, Toon
On 05/18/2011 03:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. As part of the Fuel project, one of the things we want to do (in fact, it is done) is to serialize classes. There want to have 3 possibilities: 1) Do something like DiskProxy where you only save its global name and some selector to run when deserialing it 2) Really searialize the whole class (following method dictionary, compiled methods, class pools and friend, etc) so that you can deserialize it in another image where such class is not present. 3) Do the same as 2 but validating and installing the class in the system.
For 2) what we want to do is just to serialize the class as any other object. As a result, we get a Class instance. Nothing is validated, nothing is added in Smalltalk globals, nothing is compiled. We do not use ClassBuilder at all.
For 3) we want to do 2) plus validating and installing the class in the system. For validating I mean ALL the validations that the class builder does when creating or modifying a class. And for "installing in the system" I mean notify, put in Smalltalk globals, re compile what is needed, etc...
ClassBuilder seems to do 2) and 3) together. So, what I would love to have in a new class builder is to have those two things separated. So that I can say to an object ClassManager validate: aClass or ClassManager installClassOnSystem: aClass.
Do you think such thing is possible? Right now going through ClassBuilder and understand all the validations it does is really complicated :(
Thanks in advance,
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
I'm planning to be at bern the friday 30 of june after tools so I would be happy to do that. Stef On May 18, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
Nope. That needs to be added. Sorry. If you have tests for the old classbuilder we can port them. Otherwise I can take the time at the next print I attend to do it; maybe together with somebody else.
Toon
On 05/18/2011 09:38 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
toon I looked at the code but do you have tests for the new class builder? I could not find them.
Stef On May 18, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
The PlayOut classbuilder indeed separates this nicely. We have the distinction between the "installer" and the "builder". The builder uses an "installer" as a client and notifies it about stuff that happens.
For example we have an "anonymous subclass builder" that's implemented like that. It basically just ignores most of the notifications of the builder since it doesn't really do anything.
... but of course this means that you need PlayOut ;) You can get an image at http://pinocchio.unibe.ch/~tverwaes/PlayOut.tar.gz
caveats: - At the moment that system doesn't validate everything yet like the old classbuilder (since I wanted to freely change classes with any name) - it doesn't handle obsolete subclasses yet. Oh well ;) - it's still intertwined with our slots implementation, so it relies on Helvetia. But that can/should/will be fixed without changing the API.
cheers, Toon
On 05/18/2011 03:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. As part of the Fuel project, one of the things we want to do (in fact, it is done) is to serialize classes. There want to have 3 possibilities: 1) Do something like DiskProxy where you only save its global name and some selector to run when deserialing it 2) Really searialize the whole class (following method dictionary, compiled methods, class pools and friend, etc) so that you can deserialize it in another image where such class is not present. 3) Do the same as 2 but validating and installing the class in the system.
For 2) what we want to do is just to serialize the class as any other object. As a result, we get a Class instance. Nothing is validated, nothing is added in Smalltalk globals, nothing is compiled. We do not use ClassBuilder at all.
For 3) we want to do 2) plus validating and installing the class in the system. For validating I mean ALL the validations that the class builder does when creating or modifying a class. And for "installing in the system" I mean notify, put in Smalltalk globals, re compile what is needed, etc...
ClassBuilder seems to do 2) and 3) together. So, what I would love to have in a new class builder is to have those two things separated. So that I can say to an object ClassManager validate: aClass or ClassManager installClassOnSystem: aClass.
Do you think such thing is possible? Right now going through ClassBuilder and understand all the validations it does is really complicated :(
Thanks in advance,
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
We should organize a Sprint :) Cheers, Doru On 18 May 2011, at 23:01, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I'm planning to be at bern the friday 30 of june after tools so I would be happy to do that.
Stef
On May 18, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
Nope. That needs to be added. Sorry. If you have tests for the old classbuilder we can port them. Otherwise I can take the time at the next print I attend to do it; maybe together with somebody else.
Toon
On 05/18/2011 09:38 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
toon I looked at the code but do you have tests for the new class builder? I could not find them.
Stef On May 18, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
The PlayOut classbuilder indeed separates this nicely. We have the distinction between the "installer" and the "builder". The builder uses an "installer" as a client and notifies it about stuff that happens.
For example we have an "anonymous subclass builder" that's implemented like that. It basically just ignores most of the notifications of the builder since it doesn't really do anything.
... but of course this means that you need PlayOut ;) You can get an image at http://pinocchio.unibe.ch/~tverwaes/PlayOut.tar.gz
caveats: - At the moment that system doesn't validate everything yet like the old classbuilder (since I wanted to freely change classes with any name) - it doesn't handle obsolete subclasses yet. Oh well ;) - it's still intertwined with our slots implementation, so it relies on Helvetia. But that can/should/will be fixed without changing the API.
cheers, Toon
On 05/18/2011 03:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. As part of the Fuel project, one of the things we want to do (in fact, it is done) is to serialize classes. There want to have 3 possibilities: 1) Do something like DiskProxy where you only save its global name and some selector to run when deserialing it 2) Really searialize the whole class (following method dictionary, compiled methods, class pools and friend, etc) so that you can deserialize it in another image where such class is not present. 3) Do the same as 2 but validating and installing the class in the system.
For 2) what we want to do is just to serialize the class as any other object. As a result, we get a Class instance. Nothing is validated, nothing is added in Smalltalk globals, nothing is compiled. We do not use ClassBuilder at all.
For 3) we want to do 2) plus validating and installing the class in the system. For validating I mean ALL the validations that the class builder does when creating or modifying a class. And for "installing in the system" I mean notify, put in Smalltalk globals, re compile what is needed, etc...
ClassBuilder seems to do 2) and 3) together. So, what I would love to have in a new class builder is to have those two things separated. So that I can say to an object ClassManager validate: aClass or ClassManager installClassOnSystem: aClass.
Do you think such thing is possible? Right now going through ClassBuilder and understand all the validations it does is really complicated :(
Thanks in advance,
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Value is always contextual."
I'll be at tools as well, so if we have time we can already do some stuff there. On 05/18/2011 11:01 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I'm planning to be at bern the friday 30 of june after tools so I would be happy to do that.
Stef
On May 18, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
Nope. That needs to be added. Sorry. If you have tests for the old classbuilder we can port them. Otherwise I can take the time at the next print I attend to do it; maybe together with somebody else.
Toon
On 05/18/2011 09:38 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
toon I looked at the code but do you have tests for the new class builder? I could not find them.
Stef On May 18, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
The PlayOut classbuilder indeed separates this nicely. We have the distinction between the "installer" and the "builder". The builder uses an "installer" as a client and notifies it about stuff that happens.
For example we have an "anonymous subclass builder" that's implemented like that. It basically just ignores most of the notifications of the builder since it doesn't really do anything.
... but of course this means that you need PlayOut ;) You can get an image at http://pinocchio.unibe.ch/~tverwaes/PlayOut.tar.gz
caveats: - At the moment that system doesn't validate everything yet like the old classbuilder (since I wanted to freely change classes with any name) - it doesn't handle obsolete subclasses yet. Oh well ;) - it's still intertwined with our slots implementation, so it relies on Helvetia. But that can/should/will be fixed without changing the API.
cheers, Toon
On 05/18/2011 03:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. As part of the Fuel project, one of the things we want to do (in fact, it is done) is to serialize classes. There want to have 3 possibilities: 1) Do something like DiskProxy where you only save its global name and some selector to run when deserialing it 2) Really searialize the whole class (following method dictionary, compiled methods, class pools and friend, etc) so that you can deserialize it in another image where such class is not present. 3) Do the same as 2 but validating and installing the class in the system.
For 2) what we want to do is just to serialize the class as any other object. As a result, we get a Class instance. Nothing is validated, nothing is added in Smalltalk globals, nothing is compiled. We do not use ClassBuilder at all.
For 3) we want to do 2) plus validating and installing the class in the system. For validating I mean ALL the validations that the class builder does when creating or modifying a class. And for "installing in the system" I mean notify, put in Smalltalk globals, re compile what is needed, etc...
ClassBuilder seems to do 2) and 3) together. So, what I would love to have in a new class builder is to have those two things separated. So that I can say to an object ClassManager validate: aClass or ClassManager installClassOnSystem: aClass.
Do you think such thing is possible? Right now going through ClassBuilder and understand all the validations it does is really complicated :(
Thanks in advance,
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
excellent! Stef On May 19, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
I'll be at tools as well, so if we have time we can already do some stuff there.
On 05/18/2011 11:01 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I'm planning to be at bern the friday 30 of june after tools so I would be happy to do that.
Stef
On May 18, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
Nope. That needs to be added. Sorry. If you have tests for the old classbuilder we can port them. Otherwise I can take the time at the next print I attend to do it; maybe together with somebody else.
Toon
On 05/18/2011 09:38 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
toon I looked at the code but do you have tests for the new class builder? I could not find them.
Stef On May 18, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote:
The PlayOut classbuilder indeed separates this nicely. We have the distinction between the "installer" and the "builder". The builder uses an "installer" as a client and notifies it about stuff that happens.
For example we have an "anonymous subclass builder" that's implemented like that. It basically just ignores most of the notifications of the builder since it doesn't really do anything.
... but of course this means that you need PlayOut ;) You can get an image at http://pinocchio.unibe.ch/~tverwaes/PlayOut.tar.gz
caveats: - At the moment that system doesn't validate everything yet like the old classbuilder (since I wanted to freely change classes with any name) - it doesn't handle obsolete subclasses yet. Oh well ;) - it's still intertwined with our slots implementation, so it relies on Helvetia. But that can/should/will be fixed without changing the API.
cheers, Toon
On 05/18/2011 03:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. As part of the Fuel project, one of the things we want to do (in fact, it is done) is to serialize classes. There want to have 3 possibilities: 1) Do something like DiskProxy where you only save its global name and some selector to run when deserialing it 2) Really searialize the whole class (following method dictionary, compiled methods, class pools and friend, etc) so that you can deserialize it in another image where such class is not present. 3) Do the same as 2 but validating and installing the class in the system.
For 2) what we want to do is just to serialize the class as any other object. As a result, we get a Class instance. Nothing is validated, nothing is added in Smalltalk globals, nothing is compiled. We do not use ClassBuilder at all.
For 3) we want to do 2) plus validating and installing the class in the system. For validating I mean ALL the validations that the class builder does when creating or modifying a class. And for "installing in the system" I mean notify, put in Smalltalk globals, re compile what is needed, etc...
ClassBuilder seems to do 2) and 3) together. So, what I would love to have in a new class builder is to have those two things separated. So that I can say to an object ClassManager validate: aClass or ClassManager installClassOnSystem: aClass.
Do you think such thing is possible? Right now going through ClassBuilder and understand all the validations it does is really complicated :(
Thanks in advance,
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
participants (4)
-
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Toon Verwaest -
Tudor Girba