[Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
Hello all, I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus... Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments? Bill
On 6 October 2010 04:52, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. Â One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. Â The following might be the answer:
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
what i can say.. put a feature request for NativeBoost to fetch arguments from array.. :) i imagine something like that: callFooX: x y: y rest: array <primitive: #primitiveNativeCall module: #NativeBoostPlugin > ^ NBFFICallout cdecl: #( int foo (int x, int y , char array (1) , void* array(2) ) ) module: 'bar.dll' so, array(i) tells code generator that argument should be fetched from array argument at index 1. There could be variants like: int foo (int x, int y , char array 1 , void* array 2 )
Bill
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows: fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file. Levente P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments? ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows: fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file. Levente P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself? Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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In Smallapack, I implemented a hack to handle methods with 15+ arguments, including regular Smalltalk + FFI (you can figure that Smalltalk methods wrapping a FFI call sometimes need 15+ parameters too).. It is rooted at http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=2918 A more recent version can be found at http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz It might be non trivial to merge with Pharo, but you can give it a try. Nicolas 2010/10/6 Levente Uzonyi <leves@elte.hu>:
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. Â The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. Â One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. Â The following might be the answer:
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction    name: 'fprintf'    module: 'msvcrt.dll'    callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl    returnType: ExternalType signedLong    argumentTypes: {        (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType.        ExternalType string.        ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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Levente, What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print? ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself? Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets. Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails. So, please, read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
Miguel, I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine. As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets. Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails. So, please, read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you. Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
Miguel, I do not "need" to make the call. I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else. And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you. Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Hi Bill, I somehow share some of Miguel impressions. Some (most) of your messages are too verbose for me, and - no offense - I often discard them, though I may have a solution to propose. It's hard to understand if our answer was helpful or not, if some details should be changed etc... In one word I've got the feeling to give, but not to share. Maybe my english level is just too low, but you know, these lists are rather international. Sorry for the rant, but please, help us to help you. Back to the technical problem, did the updated version at http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz help, or did my words "not trivial" stopped you? Nicolas 2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Miguel,
I do not "need" to make the call. Â I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. Â The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else.
And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. Â How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? Â The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. Â The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. Â I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break.  It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up.  If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of  "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...."  Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen.  Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity?  You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?"  Not "please do this for me."  It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you.
Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Â Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the  obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. Â The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. Â One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. Â The following might be the answer:
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction     name: 'fprintf'     module: 'msvcrt.dll'     callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl     returnType: ExternalType signedLong     argumentTypes: {         (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType.         ExternalType string.         ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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Nicolas, The "not trivial" did indeed reduce my interest. I can get around it for my own needs far more easily than taking a detour. If a detour is required, then economics will all but force me to take the more sensible path. The question is whether you get a PLplot interface with or without legend support. I get it either way. So much for this mattering only to me (not directed at you). If you look on the PLplot lists, you will find some discussion of the function's design; IMHO, it's not optimal. However, as most things in PLplot, it works; see link below. The options are: (1) call the function as designed (hence my question) (2) use a viewport to make a new coordinate system inside the graph and draw "the hard way" relative to it (3) wrap pllegend() in a .so of my own; five minutes later, I'm calling a restricted functionality version with defaults of value to me. Even I am not thrilled about (3), if only because of linking hassles from my .so to theirs, but it would be quick. (2) is questionable. I have used viewports very successfully to make grids of related graphs and to do limited versions of what gnuplot does with "y2." In this case, it has the potential to turn into a bit of a time sink, and then the question arises "why am I doing it?" If it is just to spread around the benefits of legend support, I probably have to rethink it. If it is better for all of us ("us" is complicated), then it's on the table. Bill http://plplot.sourceforge.net/examples.php?demo=26 ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:31 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments Hi Bill, I somehow share some of Miguel impressions. Some (most) of your messages are too verbose for me, and - no offense - I often discard them, though I may have a solution to propose. It's hard to understand if our answer was helpful or not, if some details should be changed etc... In one word I've got the feeling to give, but not to share. Maybe my english level is just too low, but you know, these lists are rather international. Sorry for the rant, but please, help us to help you. Back to the technical problem, did the updated version at http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz help, or did my words "not trivial" stopped you? Nicolas 2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Miguel,
I do not "need" to make the call. I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else.
And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you.
Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Nicolas,
The "not trivial" did indeed reduce my interest. Â I can get around it for my own needs far more easily than taking a detour. Â If a detour is required, then economics will all but force me to take the more sensible path. Â The question is whether you get a PLplot interface with or without legend support. Â I get it either way. Â So much for this mattering only to me (not directed at you).
Well, it might have worked at first try, or not... At least that would be a valuable information. You could even have enrolled me in helping a port to Pharo, my time is scarse, but it's free. If you have a simple solution, that's OK, but I just wonder why you asked this list. If you don't take our answers into account, then we're in a dead-end. No feedback, no win-win cycle. If it's just to diiscuss technical merit of whatever solution, without a line of code to share, then it's gonna get too abstract to interest many of us. Beware to not dry the sources. Cheers Nicolas
If you look on the PLplot lists, you will find some discussion of the function's design; IMHO, it's not optimal. Â However, as most things in PLplot, it works; see link below. Â The options are:
(1) call the function as designed (hence my question) (2) use a viewport to make a new coordinate system inside the graph and draw "the hard way" relative to it (3) wrap pllegend() in a .so of my own; five minutes later, I'm calling a restricted functionality version with defaults of value to me.
Even I am not thrilled about (3), if only because of linking hassles from my .so to theirs, but it would be quick. Â (2) is questionable. Â I have used viewports very successfully to make grids of related graphs and to do limited versions of what gnuplot does with "y2." Â In this case, it has the potential to turn into a bit of a time sink, and then the question arises "why am I doing it?" Â If it is just to spread around the benefits of legend support, I probably have to rethink it. Â If it is better for all of us ("us" is complicated), then it's on the table.
Bill
http://plplot.sourceforge.net/examples.php?demo=26
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:31 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
Hi Bill, I somehow share some of Miguel impressions. Some (most) of your messages are too verbose for me, and - no offense - I often discard them, though I may have a solution to propose. It's hard to understand if our answer was helpful or not, if some details should be changed etc... In one word I've got the feeling to give, but not to share. Maybe my english level is just too low, but you know, these lists are rather international. Sorry for the rant, but please, help us to help you.
Back to the technical problem, did the updated version at http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz help, or did my words "not trivial" stopped you?
Nicolas
2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Miguel,
I do not "need" to make the call. Â I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. Â The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else.
And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. Â How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? Â The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. Â The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. Â I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break.  It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up.  If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of  "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...."  Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen.  Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity?  You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?"  Not "please do this for me."  It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you.
Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Â Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the  obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. Â The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. Â One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. Â The following might be the answer:
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction     name: 'fprintf'     module: 'msvcrt.dll'     callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl     returnType: ExternalType signedLong     argumentTypes: {         (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType.         ExternalType string.         ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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It might still work at first try, though your initial presentation of it left me expecting something else. Don't give up as quickly as you seem to think I do. I will admit that the legend support in PLplot is not all that great to start, and it might not be worthy of heroic measures. It is not even clear that it is finalized, though they seem resistant to changing what they have. A clean way to go from a fraction of 0@0 extent:1@1 (aka a viewport) to a legend might be even more valuable. I have already used viewports to good effect, so adding a legend based on them might be reasonable and not all that different from what I will be doing with R not too long from now. Controlling text size can be problematic, which with a couple of other quirks is why I initially had high hopes for pllegend(). What PLplot does very nicely is plot "large" numbers of points from arrays of doubles. For now, we are lacking in the infrastructure required to take advantage of that. My solution so far is not ideal. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 3:30 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments 2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Nicolas,
The "not trivial" did indeed reduce my interest. I can get around it for my own needs far more easily than taking a detour. If a detour is required, then economics will all but force me to take the more sensible path. The question is whether you get a PLplot interface with or without legend support. I get it either way. So much for this mattering only to me (not directed at you).
Well, it might have worked at first try, or not... At least that would be a valuable information. You could even have enrolled me in helping a port to Pharo, my time is scarse, but it's free. If you have a simple solution, that's OK, but I just wonder why you asked this list. If you don't take our answers into account, then we're in a dead-end. No feedback, no win-win cycle. If it's just to diiscuss technical merit of whatever solution, without a line of code to share, then it's gonna get too abstract to interest many of us. Beware to not dry the sources. Cheers Nicolas
If you look on the PLplot lists, you will find some discussion of the function's design; IMHO, it's not optimal. However, as most things in PLplot, it works; see link below. The options are:
(1) call the function as designed (hence my question) (2) use a viewport to make a new coordinate system inside the graph and draw "the hard way" relative to it (3) wrap pllegend() in a .so of my own; five minutes later, I'm calling a restricted functionality version with defaults of value to me.
Even I am not thrilled about (3), if only because of linking hassles from my .so to theirs, but it would be quick. (2) is questionable. I have used viewports very successfully to make grids of related graphs and to do limited versions of what gnuplot does with "y2." In this case, it has the potential to turn into a bit of a time sink, and then the question arises "why am I doing it?" If it is just to spread around the benefits of legend support, I probably have to rethink it. If it is better for all of us ("us" is complicated), then it's on the table.
Bill
http://plplot.sourceforge.net/examples.php?demo=26
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:31 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
Hi Bill, I somehow share some of Miguel impressions. Some (most) of your messages are too verbose for me, and - no offense - I often discard them, though I may have a solution to propose. It's hard to understand if our answer was helpful or not, if some details should be changed etc... In one word I've got the feeling to give, but not to share. Maybe my english level is just too low, but you know, these lists are rather international. Sorry for the rant, but please, help us to help you.
Back to the technical problem, did the updated version at http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz help, or did my words "not trivial" stopped you?
Nicolas
2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Miguel,
I do not "need" to make the call. I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else.
And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you.
Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 16:08 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
It might still work at first try, though your initial presentation of it left me expecting something else. Don't give up as quickly as you seem to think I do. I will admit that the legend support in PLplot is not all that great to start, and it might not be worthy of heroic measures. It is not even clear that it is finalized, though they seem resistant to changing what they have. A clean way to go from a fraction of 0@0 extent:1@1 (aka a viewport) to a legend might be even more valuable. I have already used viewports to good effect, so adding a legend based on them might be reasonable and not all that different from what I will be doing with R not too long from now. Controlling text size can be problematic, which with a couple of other quirks is why I initially had high hopes for pllegend().
What PLplot does very nicely is plot "large" numbers of points from arrays of doubles. For now, we are lacking in the infrastructure required to take advantage of that. My solution so far is not ideal.
Sorry but when reading those types of emails sometimes I ask myself if I am not victim of a prank and lose to the Turing machine test and the mails were really generated automatically from a computer or some kind of Eliza software. What are you talking about Bill? And what has that to do with the words and the very reasonable points that Nicolas expresed in the mail you are responding to?
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 3:30 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Nicolas,
The "not trivial" did indeed reduce my interest. I can get around it for my own needs far more easily than taking a detour. If a detour is required, then economics will all but force me to take the more sensible path. The question is whether you get a PLplot interface with or without legend support. I get it either way. So much for this mattering only to me (not directed at you).
Well, it might have worked at first try, or not... At least that would be a valuable information. You could even have enrolled me in helping a port to Pharo, my time is scarse, but it's free. If you have a simple solution, that's OK, but I just wonder why you asked this list. If you don't take our answers into account, then we're in a dead-end. No feedback, no win-win cycle. If it's just to diiscuss technical merit of whatever solution, without a line of code to share, then it's gonna get too abstract to interest many of us. Beware to not dry the sources.
Cheers
Nicolas
If you look on the PLplot lists, you will find some discussion of the function's design; IMHO, it's not optimal. However, as most things in PLplot, it works; see link below. The options are:
(1) call the function as designed (hence my question) (2) use a viewport to make a new coordinate system inside the graph and draw "the hard way" relative to it (3) wrap pllegend() in a .so of my own; five minutes later, I'm calling a restricted functionality version with defaults of value to me.
Even I am not thrilled about (3), if only because of linking hassles from my .so to theirs, but it would be quick. (2) is questionable. I have used viewports very successfully to make grids of related graphs and to do limited versions of what gnuplot does with "y2." In this case, it has the potential to turn into a bit of a time sink, and then the question arises "why am I doing it?" If it is just to spread around the benefits of legend support, I probably have to rethink it. If it is better for all of us ("us" is complicated), then it's on the table.
Bill
http://plplot.sourceforge.net/examples.php?demo=26
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:31 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
Hi Bill, I somehow share some of Miguel impressions. Some (most) of your messages are too verbose for me, and - no offense - I often discard them, though I may have a solution to propose. It's hard to understand if our answer was helpful or not, if some details should be changed etc... In one word I've got the feeling to give, but not to share. Maybe my english level is just too low, but you know, these lists are rather international. Sorry for the rant, but please, help us to help you.
Back to the technical problem, did the updated version at http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz help, or did my words "not trivial" stopped you?
Nicolas
2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Miguel,
I do not "need" to make the call. I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else.
And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you.
Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
What I am saying to him is that the decision of whether or not to wrap pllegend() is complicated, so whether or not I adopt his proposed solution will probably be more about the relevance of pllegend() to those funding my efforts than the technical merits of what he suggests. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 4:21 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 16:08 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
It might still work at first try, though your initial presentation of it left me expecting something else. Don't give up as quickly as you seem to think I do. I will admit that the legend support in PLplot is not all that great to start, and it might not be worthy of heroic measures. It is not even clear that it is finalized, though they seem resistant to changing what they have. A clean way to go from a fraction of 0@0 extent:1@1 (aka a viewport) to a legend might be even more valuable. I have already used viewports to good effect, so adding a legend based on them might be reasonable and not all that different from what I will be doing with R not too long from now. Controlling text size can be problematic, which with a couple of other quirks is why I initially had high hopes for pllegend().
What PLplot does very nicely is plot "large" numbers of points from arrays of doubles. For now, we are lacking in the infrastructure required to take advantage of that. My solution so far is not ideal.
Sorry but when reading those types of emails sometimes I ask myself if I am not victim of a prank and lose to the Turing machine test and the mails were really generated automatically from a computer or some kind of Eliza software. What are you talking about Bill? And what has that to do with the words and the very reasonable points that Nicolas expresed in the mail you are responding to?
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 3:30 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Nicolas,
The "not trivial" did indeed reduce my interest. I can get around it for my own needs far more easily than taking a detour. If a detour is required, then economics will all but force me to take the more sensible path. The question is whether you get a PLplot interface with or without legend support. I get it either way. So much for this mattering only to me (not directed at you).
Well, it might have worked at first try, or not... At least that would be a valuable information. You could even have enrolled me in helping a port to Pharo, my time is scarse, but it's free. If you have a simple solution, that's OK, but I just wonder why you asked this list. If you don't take our answers into account, then we're in a dead-end. No feedback, no win-win cycle. If it's just to diiscuss technical merit of whatever solution, without a line of code to share, then it's gonna get too abstract to interest many of us. Beware to not dry the sources.
Cheers
Nicolas
If you look on the PLplot lists, you will find some discussion of the function's design; IMHO, it's not optimal. However, as most things in PLplot, it works; see link below. The options are:
(1) call the function as designed (hence my question) (2) use a viewport to make a new coordinate system inside the graph and draw "the hard way" relative to it (3) wrap pllegend() in a .so of my own; five minutes later, I'm calling a restricted functionality version with defaults of value to me.
Even I am not thrilled about (3), if only because of linking hassles from my .so to theirs, but it would be quick. (2) is questionable. I have used viewports very successfully to make grids of related graphs and to do limited versions of what gnuplot does with "y2." In this case, it has the potential to turn into a bit of a time sink, and then the question arises "why am I doing it?" If it is just to spread around the benefits of legend support, I probably have to rethink it. If it is better for all of us ("us" is complicated), then it's on the table.
Bill
http://plplot.sourceforge.net/examples.php?demo=26
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:31 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
Hi Bill, I somehow share some of Miguel impressions. Some (most) of your messages are too verbose for me, and - no offense - I often discard them, though I may have a solution to propose. It's hard to understand if our answer was helpful or not, if some details should be changed etc... In one word I've got the feeling to give, but not to share. Maybe my english level is just too low, but you know, these lists are rather international. Sorry for the rant, but please, help us to help you.
Back to the technical problem, did the updated version at http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz help, or did my words "not trivial" stopped you?
Nicolas
2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Miguel,
I do not "need" to make the call. I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else.
And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you.
Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Bill, that was not obvious... and is probably not helpful to me. At least, Miguel's response was funny. Thank you for provoking that, I owe you a smile :) Nicolas 2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
What I am saying to him is that the decision of whether or not to wrap pllegend() is complicated, so whether or not I adopt his proposed solution will probably be more about the relevance of pllegend() to those funding my efforts than the technical merits of what he suggests.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 4:21 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 16:08 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
It might still work at first try, though your initial presentation of it left me expecting something else. Â Don't give up as quickly as you seem to think I do. Â I will admit that the legend support in PLplot is not all that great to start, and it might not be worthy of heroic measures. Â It is not even clear that it is finalized, though they seem resistant to changing what they have. Â A clean way to go from a fraction of 0@0 extent:1@1 (aka a viewport) to a legend might be even more valuable. Â I have already used viewports to good effect, so adding a legend based on them might be reasonable and not all that different from what I will be doing with R not too long from now. Â Controlling text size can be problematic, which with a couple of other quirks is why I initially had high hopes for pllegend().
What PLplot does very nicely is plot "large" numbers of points from arrays of doubles. Â For now, we are lacking in the infrastructure required to take advantage of that. Â My solution so far is not ideal.
Sorry but when reading those types of emails sometimes I ask myself if I am not victim of a prank and lose to the Turing machine test and the mails were really generated automatically from a computer or some kind of Eliza software.
What are you talking about Bill? And what has that to do with the words and the very reasonable points that Nicolas expresed in the mail you are responding to?
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 3:30 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Nicolas,
The "not trivial" did indeed reduce my interest. Â I can get around it for my own needs far more easily than taking a detour. Â If a detour is required, then economics will all but force me to take the more sensible path. Â The question is whether you get a PLplot interface with or without legend support. Â I get it either way. Â So much for this mattering only to me (not directed at you).
Well, it might have worked at first try, or not... At least that would be a valuable information. You could even have enrolled me in helping a port to Pharo, my time is scarse, but it's free. If you have a simple solution, that's OK, but I just wonder why you asked this list. If you don't take our answers into account, then we're in a dead-end. No feedback, no win-win cycle. If it's just to diiscuss technical merit of whatever solution, without a line of code to share, then it's gonna get too abstract to interest many of us. Beware to not dry the sources.
Cheers
Nicolas
If you look on the PLplot lists, you will find some discussion of the function's design; IMHO, it's not optimal. Â However, as most things in PLplot, it works; see link below. Â The options are:
(1) call the function as designed (hence my question) (2) use a viewport to make a new coordinate system inside the graph and draw "the hard way" relative to it (3) wrap pllegend() in a .so of my own; five minutes later, I'm calling a restricted functionality version with defaults of value to me.
Even I am not thrilled about (3), if only because of linking hassles from my .so to theirs, but it would be quick. Â (2) is questionable. Â I have used viewports very successfully to make grids of related graphs and to do limited versions of what gnuplot does with "y2." Â In this case, it has the potential to turn into a bit of a time sink, and then the question arises "why am I doing it?" Â If it is just to spread around the benefits of legend support, I probably have to rethink it. Â If it is better for all of us ("us" is complicated), then it's on the table.
Bill
http://plplot.sourceforge.net/examples.php?demo=26
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier [nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:31 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
Hi Bill, I somehow share some of Miguel impressions. Some (most) of your messages are too verbose for me, and - no offense - I often discard them, though I may have a solution to propose. It's hard to understand if our answer was helpful or not, if some details should be changed etc... In one word I've got the feeling to give, but not to share. Maybe my english level is just too low, but you know, these lists are rather international. Sorry for the rant, but please, help us to help you.
Back to the technical problem, did the updated version at http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz help, or did my words "not trivial" stopped you?
Nicolas
2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Miguel,
I do not "need" to make the call. Â I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. Â The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else.
And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. Â How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? Â The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. Â The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. Â I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break.  It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up.  If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of  "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...."  Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen.  Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity?  You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?"  Not "please do this for me."  It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you.
Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Â Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the  obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. Â The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. Â One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. Â The following might be the answer:
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction     name: 'fprintf'     module: 'msvcrt.dll'     callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl     returnType: ExternalType signedLong     argumentTypes: {         (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType.         ExternalType string.         ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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Bill, On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>wrote:
Miguel,
I do not "need" to make the call. I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else.
And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists.
You can. You're just too lazy to try. You need to read (at least) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism. I share Miguel's and Nicolas' impressions of you. I see you taking much more than you give and it's straining my patience. Eliot
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [ pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [ miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you.
Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [ pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [ miguel.coba@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [
pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [ leves@elte.hu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [
pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [ leves@elte.hu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is)
arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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Stick around. Have you noticed that some of what I am "taking" is going into an interface to GSL? When I am finally able to "take" something that provides callbacks, you will be in for a shock. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments Bill, On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Miguel, I do not "need" to make the call. I am wondering whether I can do so in a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same functionality via a .so of my own creation. The latter is fine for me but does not do much for anyone else. And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. How can I tell the difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part calling a fairly cumbersome function? The answer: I can't, not without work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists. You can. You're just too lazy to try. You need to read (at least) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism. I share Miguel's and Nicolas' impressions of you. I see you taking much more than you give and it's straining my patience. Eliot Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com<mailto:miguel.coba@gmail.com>] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Miguel,
I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine.
As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call without asking for scouting reports.
But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone but you. Cheers
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá [miguel.coba@gmail.com<mailto:miguel.coba@gmail.com>] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió:
Levente,
What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not in fine print?
But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my machine", that doesn't help in helping you. Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets.
Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails.
So, please, read
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
do your homework and then ask the list.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu<mailto:leves@elte.hu>] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments?
It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself?
Levente
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi [leves@elte.hu<mailto:leves@elte.hu>] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments
On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Hello all,
I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if at all possible. The following might be the answer:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus...
Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) arguments?
You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. Here's an fprintf example on windows:
fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction name: 'fprintf' module: 'msvcrt.dll' callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl returnType: ExternalType signedLong argumentTypes: { (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. ExternalType string. ExternalType signedLong }. file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. Stdio default fcloseWith: file.
Levente
P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this example.
Bill
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
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-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
participants (6)
-
Eliot Miranda -
Igor Stasenko -
Levente Uzonyi -
Miguel Cobá -
Nicolas Cellier -
Schwab,Wilhelm K