GT first impressions
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback: - First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window. - When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands. - Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code. - I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs. - "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears. - Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view. Cheers, Hernán
Hi Hernán, Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :) The rest of the reply is inline. On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger. Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Hi Doru 2014-10-04 17:43 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
One day I will write about what I like, I promise!
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
In my case, because sometimes I do remote desktop over remote desktop over Windows and Linux, and protocols use to lost dead keys like Ctrl, Shift, etc.
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
Ok, good to know
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
Cool :)
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but
suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
I just typed DateAndTime now asTime. and "Print it" displays current date and time but get quickly refreshed. This happens only the first time, print it again didn't show any results at all. Let me know if you cannot reproduce, below is how I installed GT.
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?
I am trying in a fresh Pharo 3.0 image on Windows 8.1, and followed instructions in http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/installing-gtoolkit .BTW when the installation finish the image seems to automatically closes, but this is reported in other recent post.
In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
Ok, thank you for the quick reply Doru. Cheers, Hernán Cheers,
Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi, On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Doru
2014-10-04 17:43 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
One day I will write about what I like, I promise!
Good :)
[...]
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
In my case, because sometimes I do remote desktop over remote desktop over Windows and Linux, and protocols use to lost dead keys like Ctrl, Shift, etc.
Ok. That makes sense. Andrei added these actions in the latest development version. Loading again like you said below should provide you those actions. [...]
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
I just typed
DateAndTime now asTime.
and "Print it" displays current date and time but get quickly refreshed. This happens only the first time, print it again didn't show any results at all. Let me know if you cannot reproduce, below is how I installed GT.
I cannot reproduce it. Print it should popup the result and the popup should remain until you either press Esc or you change focus to something else. It should look like this: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/rethinking-print-it-in-pharo/
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?
I am trying in a fresh Pharo 3.0 image on Windows 8.1, and followed instructions in http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/installing-gtoolkit .BTW when the installation finish the image seems to automatically closes, but this is reported in other recent post.
Indeed, the script should have mention "activateWithoutSaving" instead of "activate". Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
2014-10-04 23:13 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Doru
2014-10-04 17:43 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
One day I will write about what I like, I promise!
Good :)
[...]
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
In my case, because sometimes I do remote desktop over remote desktop over Windows and Linux, and protocols use to lost dead keys like Ctrl, Shift, etc.
Ok. That makes sense. Andrei added these actions in the latest development version. Loading again like you said below should provide you those actions.
[...]
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
I just typed
DateAndTime now asTime.
and "Print it" displays current date and time but get quickly refreshed. This happens only the first time, print it again didn't show any results at all. Let me know if you cannot reproduce, below is how I installed GT.
I cannot reproduce it. Print it should popup the result and the popup should remain until you either press Esc or you change focus to something else.
This happens on choosing "PrintIt" from the menu. There is an issue on fogbugz 14128 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14128> "Print it" from Playground menu does not work already fixed an integrated in 40276
It should look like this: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/rethinking-print-it-in-pharo/
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?
I am trying in a fresh Pharo 3.0 image on Windows 8.1, and followed instructions in http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/installing-gtoolkit .BTW when the installation finish the image seems to automatically closes, but this is reported in other recent post.
Indeed, the script should have mention "activateWithoutSaving" instead of "activate".
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Oh, I see now. Where was the fix committed? Doru On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-10-04 23:13 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Doru
2014-10-04 17:43 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
One day I will write about what I like, I promise!
Good :)
[...]
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
In my case, because sometimes I do remote desktop over remote desktop over Windows and Linux, and protocols use to lost dead keys like Ctrl, Shift, etc.
Ok. That makes sense. Andrei added these actions in the latest development version. Loading again like you said below should provide you those actions.
[...]
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
I just typed
DateAndTime now asTime.
and "Print it" displays current date and time but get quickly refreshed. This happens only the first time, print it again didn't show any results at all. Let me know if you cannot reproduce, below is how I installed GT.
I cannot reproduce it. Print it should popup the result and the popup should remain until you either press Esc or you change focus to something else.
This happens on choosing "PrintIt" from the menu. There is an issue on fogbugz 14128 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14128> "Print it" from Playground menu does not work
already fixed an integrated in 40276
It should look like this: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/rethinking-print-it-in-pharo/
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so?
I am trying in a fresh Pharo 3.0 image on Windows 8.1, and followed instructions in http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/installing-gtoolkit .BTW when the installation finish the image seems to automatically closes, but this is reported in other recent post.
Indeed, the script should have mention "activateWithoutSaving" instead of "activate".
Cheers, Doru
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Doru can you add sender and implementors because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
putting a caption would be a great point. why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
On 05 Oct 2014, at 08:43, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>> wrote: Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Doru can you add sender and implementors because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.
and âbrowseâ. In fact⦠I want almost all the âextended searchâ back⦠please, please, please.
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
putting a caption would be a great point. why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.
Iâm planning to make Doru hate me by replacing all those icons by âthemableâ icons and of course, using eclipse icons for all that actions ;) Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi, On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 05 Oct 2014, at 08:43, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Doru can you add sender and implementors because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.
and âbrowseâ. In fact⦠I want almost all the âextended searchâ back⦠please, please, please.
It's back. But, this time as a real submenu, not like the hack we had before in the Workspace (a menu was spawning another menu). Funny enough, nobody complained about that one. It's good to shake the tree :).
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift
the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
putting a caption would be a great point. why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.
Iâm planning to make Doru hate me by replacing all those icons by âthemableâ icons and of course, using eclipse icons for all that actions ;)
All the visual aspects from GT and Glamour should get themeable (not all of them are at this point). I will certainly not complain if you help there :). As for the icons, I think Pharo deserves a Pharo look, not an Eclipse one. So, you can certainly use the Eclipse icons, but I will try to propose a complete set of Pharo icons. Cheers, Doru
Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On 05 Oct 2014, at 09:55, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 05 Oct 2014, at 08:43, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>> wrote: Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Doru can you add sender and implementors because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.
and âbrowseâ. In fact⦠I want almost all the âextended searchâ back⦠please, please, please.
It's back. But, this time as a real submenu, not like the hack we had before in the Workspace (a menu was spawning another menu). Funny enough, nobody complained about that one. It's good to shake the tree :).
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger. putting a caption would be a great point. why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.
Iâm planning to make Doru hate me by replacing all those icons by âthemableâ icons and of course, using eclipse icons for all that actions ;)
All the visual aspects from GT and Glamour should get themeable (not all of them are at this point). I will certainly not complain if you help there :).
As for the icons, I think Pharo deserves a Pharo look, not an Eclipse one. So, you can certainly use the Eclipse icons, but I will try to propose a complete set of Pharo icons.
of course, is better if we have our own. problem is that a complete set is hard to do, with the appropriate quality, etc. If you do it, I will be super happy (with Nico we started a set of icons both for Pharo and Amber⦠and my contribution there was just to ask Nico âis there something new todayâ, because I frankly suck at design :P) Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi, On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 05 Oct 2014, at 09:55, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 05 Oct 2014, at 08:43, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Doru can you add sender and implementors because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.
and âbrowseâ. In fact⦠I want almost all the âextended searchâ back⦠please, please, please.
It's back. But, this time as a real submenu, not like the hack we had before in the Workspace (a menu was spawning another menu). Funny enough, nobody complained about that one. It's good to shake the tree :).
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift
the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
putting a caption would be a great point. why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.
Iâm planning to make Doru hate me by replacing all those icons by âthemableâ icons and of course, using eclipse icons for all that actions ;)
All the visual aspects from GT and Glamour should get themeable (not all of them are at this point). I will certainly not complain if you help there :).
As for the icons, I think Pharo deserves a Pharo look, not an Eclipse one. So, you can certainly use the Eclipse icons, but I will try to propose a complete set of Pharo icons.
of course, is better if we have our own. problem is that a complete set is hard to do, with the appropriate quality, etc. If you do it, I will be super happy (with Nico we started a set of icons both for Pharo and Amber⦠and my contribution there was just to ask Nico âis there something new todayâ, because I frankly suck at design :P)
When I asked for help, I was more thinking of getting the icons be themeable at the code level - delegate to a themer object :) Cheers, Doru
Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On 05 Oct 2014, at 10:39, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 05 Oct 2014, at 09:55, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 05 Oct 2014, at 08:43, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>> wrote: Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Doru can you add sender and implementors because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.
and âbrowseâ. In fact⦠I want almost all the âextended searchâ back⦠please, please, please.
It's back. But, this time as a real submenu, not like the hack we had before in the Workspace (a menu was spawning another menu). Funny enough, nobody complained about that one. It's good to shake the tree :).
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger. putting a caption would be a great point. why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.
Iâm planning to make Doru hate me by replacing all those icons by âthemableâ icons and of course, using eclipse icons for all that actions ;)
All the visual aspects from GT and Glamour should get themeable (not all of them are at this point). I will certainly not complain if you help there :).
As for the icons, I think Pharo deserves a Pharo look, not an Eclipse one. So, you can certainly use the Eclipse icons, but I will try to propose a complete set of Pharo icons.
of course, is better if we have our own. problem is that a complete set is hard to do, with the appropriate quality, etc. If you do it, I will be super happy (with Nico we started a set of icons both for Pharo and Amber⦠and my contribution there was just to ask Nico âis there something new todayâ, because I frankly suck at design :P)
When I asked for help, I was more thinking of getting the icons be themeable at the code level - delegate to a themer object :)
yeah, I started. Real problem is that I became very ambitious with that (or at least: more ambitious than: lets make this work and think later), so I will take a bit more of time :P Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Esteban
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi, On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:43 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
On 4/10/14 22:43, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Doru can you add sender and implementors because I saw that newbies are really lost when the cannot know what they can do.
It's done :). It took a while because we had to find a suitable code design, but now Andrei came up with an elegant solution that does not force us to duplicate code between the presentation, renderer and the text editor. - Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift
the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
putting a caption would be a great point. why forcing people to learn icons. Icons should be there to help not to force learning.
The problem is that they would take too much space. This is especially problematic when you have multiple extra actions (remember that this is extensible). We have to come up with a different solution somehow, but we need a bit more time. Cheers, Doru
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:43, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>> wrote: Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Is an usability principle: A system should provide visual feedback about what happens and about what it can do. How can we know what can or cannot do the playground? But of course, using menus as documentation is not always a good idea, so⦠we need to find a balance here :) I always use OSX design guidelines as a base on what I want to do (not that we should take it literally, but is always good to see what others with time to invest have to say). And this is all what they say about menus: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/userexperience/concept... <https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/userexperience/concept...> Esteban
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi Esteban, I know it's a usability principle, but usability should also take into account culture. Programmers are not every-day users, and the assumptions we take should adapt to their needs. This is why it is worth exploring what might or might not be needed. I cannot believe that programmers do not know the shortcuts, but I did not consider the case in which people go through multiple virtual boxes to get to the image. This is a legitimate issue, so these actions are back. Cheers, Doru On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:43, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Is an usability principle: A system should provide visual feedback about what happens and about what it can do. How can we know what can or cannot do the playground? But of course, using menus as documentation is not always a good idea, so⦠we need to find a balance here :) I always use OSX design guidelines as a base on what I want to do (not that we should take it literally, but is always good to see what others with time to invest have to say). And this is all what they say about menus: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/userexperience/concept...
Esteban
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
If I was coding God that was able to code at coding speed 120WPM (Words Per Minute) then yes I would not even consider using anything but shortcuts but my speed is more like 120 WPH (Words Per Hour) which is more like 20 lines of code and that is a very optimistic scenario. So I find myself in many cases just right clicking , why ? a) Because using menus does not bother me too much even if it is a bit slow to using a shortcut and b) In many cases I tend to forget shortcuts I dont use 24/7. Of course not copy and paste. I tried to make my brain fit into the emacs/vim mentality of only using shortcuts but I keep forgetting stuff or being lazy to go back to documentation to remember when I can just right click and find what I want. Plus right clicking has another advantage it shows you the right shortcut next to the menu option. So for me right click menus and other menus are beginner and lazy friendly. On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Esteban,
I know it's a usability principle, but usability should also take into account culture. Programmers are not every-day users, and the assumptions we take should adapt to their needs. This is why it is worth exploring what might or might not be needed.
I cannot believe that programmers do not know the shortcuts, but I did not consider the case in which people go through multiple virtual boxes to get to the image. This is a legitimate issue, so these actions are back.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:43, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Is an usability principle: A system should provide visual feedback about what happens and about what it can do. How can we know what can or cannot do the playground? But of course, using menus as documentation is not always a good idea, so⦠we need to find a balance here :) I always use OSX design guidelines as a base on what I want to do (not that we should take it literally, but is always good to see what others with time to invest have to say). And this is all what they say about menus: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/userexperience/concept...
Esteban
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have.
-- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
I don't even use shortcuts for copy and paste. I can't be much of a programmer. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GT-first-impressions-tp4782636p4782710.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi, My remark was not meant to be derogative. If it came out like this, I apologize. I simply stated what my assumption was. You prove to refute my assumption (at least for your specific case). Cheers, Doru On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 1:35 PM, kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't even use shortcuts for copy and paste. I can't be much of a programmer.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GT-first-impressions-tp4782636p4782710.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Doru - Don't take me too seriously. There was no offence. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GT-first-impressions-tp4782636p4782721.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Ok :) Doru On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 2:45 PM, kmo <voxkmp@gmail.com> wrote:
Doru -
Don't take me too seriously. There was no offence.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GT-first-impressions-tp4782636p4782721.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Esteban,
I know it's a usability principle, but usability should also take into account culture. Programmers are not every-day users, and the assumptions we take should adapt to their needs. This is why it is worth exploring what might or might not be needed.
I cannot believe that programmers do not know the shortcuts,
But programmers new to Pharo don't know the shortcuts. Menus enhance the explorability of the system, and lower the cognitive load of remembering everything all at once, and helps with video tutorials. cheers -ben
but I did not consider the case in which people go through multiple virtual boxes to get to the image. This is a legitimate issue, so these actions are back.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:43, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Is an usability principle: A system should provide visual feedback about what happens and about what it can do. How can we know what can or cannot do the playground? But of course, using menus as documentation is not always a good idea, so⦠we need to find a balance here :) I always use OSX design guidelines as a base on what I want to do (not that we should take it literally, but is always good to see what others with time to invest have to say). And this is all what they say about menus: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/userexperience/concept...
Esteban
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc.
-- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi, On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Esteban,
I know it's a usability principle, but usability should also take into account culture. Programmers are not every-day users, and the assumptions we take should adapt to their needs. This is why it is worth exploring what might or might not be needed.
I cannot believe that programmers do not know the shortcuts,
But programmers new to Pharo don't know the shortcuts. Menus enhance the explorability of the system, and lower the cognitive load of remembering everything all at once, and helps with video tutorials. cheers -ben
Perhaps it was not clear, but the current discussion is about copy/cut/paste :). Cheers, Doru
but I did not consider the case in which people go through multiple
virtual boxes to get to the image. This is a legitimate issue, so these actions are back.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:43, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com
<mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Is an usability principle: A system should provide visual feedback about what happens and about what it can do. How can we know what can or cannot do the playground? But of course, using menus as documentation is not always a good idea, so⦠we need to find a balance here :) I always use OSX design guidelines as a base on what I want to do (not that we should take it literally, but is always good to see what others with time to invest have to say). And this is all what they say about menus: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/ userexperience/conceptual/applehiguidelines/Menus/Menus.html
Esteban
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On 05 Oct 2014, at 18:24, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote: Tudor Girba wrote: Hi Esteban,
I know it's a usability principle, but usability should also take into account culture. Programmers are not every-day users, and the assumptions we take should adapt to their needs. This is why it is worth exploring what might or might not be needed.
I cannot believe that programmers do not know the shortcuts,
But programmers new to Pharo don't know the shortcuts. Menus enhance the explorability of the system, and lower the cognitive load of remembering everything all at once, and helps with video tutorials. cheers -ben
Perhaps it was not clear, but the current discussion is about copy/cut/paste :).
Well, I donât know if it helps, but I cannot think on a single app in my life that does not have those ubiquitous copy/cut/paste options as part of their contextual menus. Not that because everybody does it we *have to* do it too⦠but I do not see a reason to not follow the universal conventions in this case. Esteban
Cheers, Doru
but I did not consider the case in which people go through multiple virtual boxes to get to the image. This is a legitimate issue, so these actions are back.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>> wrote:
On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:43, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com> <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>>> wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com> <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>>> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Is an usability principle: A system should provide visual feedback about what happens and about what it can do. How can we know what can or cannot do the playground? But of course, using menus as documentation is not always a good idea, so⦠we need to find a balance here :) I always use OSX design guidelines as a base on what I want to do (not that we should take it literally, but is always good to see what others with time to invest have to say). And this is all what they say about menus: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/userexperience/concept... <https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/userexperience/concept...>
Esteban
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> <http://www.tudorgirba.com/ <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> <http://www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote:
Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi Esteban,
I know it's a usability principle, but usability should also take into account culture. Programmers are not every-day users, and the assumptions we take should adapt to their needs. This is why it is worth exploring what might or might not be needed.
I cannot believe that programmers do not know the shortcuts,
But programmers new to Pharo don't know the shortcuts. Menus enhance the explorability of the system, and lower the cognitive load of remembering everything all at once, and helps with video tutorials. cheers -ben
Perhaps it was not clear, but the current discussion is about copy/cut/paste :).
Cheers, Doru
Yes, it was not clear. I was thinking more of the "Extended search..." and suchlike, but I see you've mentioned addressing that already. cheers -ben
but I did not consider the case in which people go through multiple virtual boxes to get to the image. This is a legitimate issue, so these actions are back.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>> wrote:
On 04 Oct 2014, at 22:43, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com> <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>>> wrote:
Hi Hernán,
Thanks for the feedback. Just a question: Was there anything you do like? :)
The rest of the reply is inline.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <hernan.morales@gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com> <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.__com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>>> wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window.
That is because it is still a work in progress.
- When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands.
This was reported. The menu is missing on purpose. I still have a hard time understanding why a developer needs those menu entries, but we will add them back. Btw, the shortcuts do work.
Is an usability principle: A system should provide visual feedback about what happens and about what it can do. How can we know what can or cannot do the playground? But of course, using menus as documentation is not always a good idea, so⦠we need to find a balance here :) I always use OSX design guidelines as a base on what I want to do (not that we should take it literally, but is always good to see what others with time to invest have to say). And this is all what they say about menus: https://developer.apple.com/__library/mac/documentation/__userexperience/con... <https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/userexperience/concept...>
Esteban
- Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code.
The usage depends on the scenario in which you are. In most cases, when you do want to drill through many objects, you are likely to only use the playground as an entry point. When you build a more elaborate piece of code in the playground, you typically do not need to drill too much. In any case, if you want to scroll back, there are also keybindings that allow you to navigate: Cmd+Alt+Left/Right.
- I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs.
This is a feature that is already planned.
- "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that? Print it should behave like here:
- Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
The debugger is not in the Pharo image, so I think you are trying the Moose image. Is that so? In any case, the positioning of the icons will be the same everywhere in GT (to the right of the scope they relate to). We are still fiddling with the right balance in the debugger.
Cheers, Doru
Cheers,
Hernán
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> <http://www.tudorgirba.com/>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
On 4/10/14 22:10, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
Sorry if following issues were reported. I have seen so many mails about GT that I wanted to try it. These are my first notes and personal tastes, don't take them as negative just want to provide some feedback:
- First weird thing: The Workspace doesn't open a Workspace anymore, it opens a Playground window. - When I select code, right click gives no "Copy, Cut, Delete" commands. - Selecting an instance variable from the "State" tab, completely shift the code view and scrolls to a new Inspector. Is not that I would love to scroll back everytime to get a view on my code. - I cannot find how to close new Inspector tabs. - "Print it" seems broken. It seems to print evaluation result but suddenly dissapears. - Debugger buttons Into, Through, etc. -- They are too small and close themselves for the importance they have. -- They have no caption, so you have to mouse over to know what they do (until you get used to) -- They are like "too distant" from the code view.
I already reported most of them on the moose mailing-list :) Tx!
Cheers,
Hernán
participants (8)
-
Ben Coman -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Hernán Morales Durand -
kilon alios -
kmo -
Nicolai Hess -
stepharo -
Tudor Girba