[Pharo-project] Announcements for Pharo?
Hi all, should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations? Michael
That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas and it works just fine. Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the blog :). Cheers, Doru On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote:
Hi all,
should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations?
Michael
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Tudor Girba wrote:
That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas and it works just fine.
+ 1 I also use the Lukas' version. That is the version that we should use and standarize to. Miguel Cobá
Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the blog :).
Cheers, Doru
On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote:
Hi all,
should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations?
Michael
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"Presenting is storytelling."
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+1 Even as a beginner, it made sense to me! Rob On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá MartÃnez < m.coba.m@gmail.com> wrote:
Tudor Girba wrote:
That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas and it works just fine.
+ 1
I also use the Lukas' version. That is the version that we should use and standarize to.
Miguel Cobá
Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the blog :).
Cheers, Doru
On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote:
Hi all,
should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations?
Michael
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-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Presenting is storytelling."
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Rob Rothwell wrote:
+1
Even as a beginner, it made sense to me!
Rob
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá MartÃnez <m.coba.m@gmail.com <mailto:m.coba.m@gmail.com>> wrote:
Tudor Girba wrote: > That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas > and it works just fine. >
There is also WAAnnouncements, "Wandering announcements" which has a whole lot more functionality taking advantage of the intrinsic structure and logical geography of components. i.e. An announcement can track a path up a hierarchy or over siblings. I wrote this to be useful for simulations (of hierarchical assemblies), and the UI has a hierarchical structure. Keith
Keith Hodges wrote:
Rob Rothwell wrote:
+1
Even as a beginner, it made sense to me!
Rob
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá MartÃnez <m.coba.m@gmail.com <mailto:m.coba.m@gmail.com>> wrote:
Tudor Girba wrote: > That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas > and it works just fine. >
There is also WAAnnouncements, "Wandering announcements" which has a whole lot more functionality taking advantage of the intrinsic structure and logical geography of components. i.e. An announcement can track a path up a hierarchy or over siblings.
I wrote this to be useful for simulations (of hierarchical assemblies), and the UI has a hierarchical structure.
It is possible to merge this extra functionality or create a new Announcements framework that includes the best of the two? Miguel Cobá
Keith
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I found Vassili's Announcements a really cool way to implement any publish/subscribe event mechanism, because it is generally useful for many things from events in GUI apps to those on web apps and they can be extended even in a distributed way (think Hydra). Announcements in Pharo are therefore very welcome, I'd just be careful that they are API compatible with VisualWorks, to ease porting. Best regards Janko Rob Rothwell pravi:
+1
Even as a beginner, it made sense to me!
Rob
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá MartÃnez <m.coba.m@gmail.com <mailto:m.coba.m@gmail.com>> wrote:
Tudor Girba wrote: > That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas > and it works just fine. >
+ 1
I also use the Lukas' version. That is the version that we should use and standarize to.
Miguel Cobá
> Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom > copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not > look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the > blog :). > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> should we add Announcements as part of the core image? >> And if so, which of the existing implementations? >> >> Michael
-- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
We have just ported an application that uses Announcements from VW to Pharo, and it worked out of the box (well, a minor renaming was necessary, but it is now committed) with the implementation of Lukas. Cheers, Doru On 26 Feb 2009, at 11:20, Janko Mivšek wrote:
I found Vassili's Announcements a really cool way to implement any publish/subscribe event mechanism, because it is generally useful for many things from events in GUI apps to those on web apps and they can be extended even in a distributed way (think Hydra).
Announcements in Pharo are therefore very welcome, I'd just be careful that they are API compatible with VisualWorks, to ease porting.
Best regards Janko
Rob Rothwell pravi:
+1
Even as a beginner, it made sense to me!
Rob
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá MartÃnez <m.coba.m@gmail.com <mailto:m.coba.m@gmail.com>> wrote:
Tudor Girba wrote:
That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas and it works just fine.
+ 1
I also use the Lukas' version. That is the version that we should use and standarize to.
Miguel Cobá
Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the blog :).
Cheers, Doru
On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote:
Hi all,
should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations?
Michael
-- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
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+ 1
I also use the Lukas' version. That is the version that we should use and standarize to.
Miguel Cobá
+1 for me as well, I also use Lukas' implementation. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com
Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the blog :).
I originally started from Colin's minimal implementation in OB and extended it with additional ideas that I found in the blog of Vassili. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
This may be a stupid question, but here it goes: Does exist the Announcement implementation of Lukas in the actual image of Pharo? In some time we will publish a new framework for Comet (called Meteoroid) which goes on top of Seaside and Swazoo and we are thinking to port it into Squeak/Pharo, but an implementation of announcements is required. It would be nice to see how much are similar the Lukas's announcements with Cincom's announcements. Bye, Lautaro Fernández 2009/2/25 Tudor Girba <girba@iam.unibe.ch>
That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas and it works just fine.
Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the blog :).
Cheers, Doru
On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote:
Hi all,
should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations?
Michael
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-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Presenting is storytelling."
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-- Luke LAut SkyFernadezWalker
On Feb 26, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Lautaro Fernández wrote:
This may be a stupid question, but here it goes: Does exist the Announcement implementation of Lukas in the actual image of Pharo?
We will include it. Stef
In some time we will publish a new framework for Comet (called Meteoroid) which goes on top of Seaside and Swazoo and we are thinking to port it into Squeak/Pharo, but an implementation of announcements is required. It would be nice to see how much are similar the Lukas's announcements with Cincom's announcements.
Bye, Lautaro Fernández
2009/2/25 Tudor Girba <girba@iam.unibe.ch> That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas and it works just fine.
Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the blog :).
Cheers, Doru
On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote:
Hi all,
should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations?
Michael
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-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Presenting is storytelling."
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2009/2/26 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>
On Feb 26, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Lautaro Fernández wrote:
This may be a stupid question, but here it goes: Does exist the Announcement implementation of Lukas in the actual image of Pharo?
We will include it.
Thanks, we will try with Pharo then. Lautaro Fernández
Stef
In some time we will publish a new framework for Comet (called Meteoroid) which goes on top of Seaside and Swazoo and we are thinking to port it into Squeak/Pharo, but an implementation of announcements is required. It would be nice to see how much are similar the Lukas's announcements with Cincom's announcements.
Bye, Lautaro Fernández
2009/2/25 Tudor Girba <girba@iam.unibe.ch> That would be cool, actually. I have used the implementation of Lukas and it works just fine.
Lukas pointed out that the VW Announcements code is under Cincom copyright. The nice thing about his implementation is that he did not look at the code. He only implemented the idea as he read it from the blog :).
Cheers, Doru
On 26 Feb 2009, at 01:28, Michael Rueger wrote:
Hi all,
should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations?
Michael
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-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Presenting is storytelling."
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-- Luke LAut SkyFernadezWalker
Lautaro Fernández wrote:
2009/2/26 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>>
On Feb 26, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Lautaro Fernández wrote:
> This may be a stupid question, but here it goes: > Does exist the Announcement implementation of Lukas in the actual > image of Pharo?
We will include it.
Thanks, we will try with Pharo then. Lautaro Fernández I am confused. Surely you would expect a loadable package to remain loadable and only be called up if needed?
Keith
Keith Hodges wrote:
We will include it.
Thanks, we will try with Pharo then. Lautaro Fernández
I am confused. Surely you would expect a loadable package to remain loadable and only be called up if needed?
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core. This will allow us to have *one* mechanism for signaling/subscribing and can over time replace the different variants that are now used and provide a solid base for anyone needing such a mechanism. In the experimental forks I have worked on having Announcements available made all the difference. Michael
Michael Rueger wrote:
Keith Hodges wrote:
We will include it.
Thanks, we will try with Pharo then. Lautaro Fernández
I am confused. Surely you would expect a loadable package to remain loadable and only be called up if needed?
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core. This will allow us to have *one* mechanism for signaling/subscribing and can over time replace the different variants that are now used and provide a solid base for anyone needing such a mechanism. In the experimental forks I have worked on having Announcements available made all the difference.
+1 We need to standarize to only one implementation, if posible, adding the features needed from the others if neccesary. It could be that some features from other implementation could not be integrated because of architectural reason, but that will be discussed when the time arrives. Miguel Cobá
Michael
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On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Michael Rueger <m.rueger@acm.org> wrote:
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core.
I have to disagree. The less we have the core, the easier it will be to maintain it. However, Announcements may be included in the Pharo distribution (currently named pharo-dev). I think we should discuss that. I've added it to http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Packages -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
Damien Cassou pravi:
Michael Rueger wrote:
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core.
I have to disagree. The less we have the core, the easier it will be to maintain it. However, Announcements may be included in the Pharo distribution (currently named pharo-dev). I think we should discuss that. I've added it to http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Packages
Announcements will soon become as core as Morphic, actually even more, because they can replace the existing event mechanism in Morphic. VW guys actually did that in their GUI, so this is proven in practice. Therefore it is good for Announcements to become part of core, because it will enable so many things, which is the main goal of the core anyway: to contain a functionality useful as broadly as possible. So, make an exception, include Announcements in core, noone will regret that! Janko -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
I agree. Am 26.02.2009 um 17:19 schrieb Janko Mivšek:
Announcements will soon become as core as Morphic, actually even more, because they can replace the existing event mechanism in Morphic. VW guys actually did that in their GUI, so this is proven in practice.
Therefore it is good for Announcements to become part of core, because it will enable so many things, which is the main goal of the core anyway: to contain a functionality useful as broadly as possible.
So, make an exception, include Announcements in core, noone will regret that!
But announcements are really core. :) Stef
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Michael Rueger <m.rueger@acm.org> wrote:
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core.
I have to disagree. The less we have the core, the easier it will be to maintain it. However, Announcements may be included in the Pharo distribution (currently named pharo-dev). I think we should discuss that. I've added it to http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Packages
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
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On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 07:45 -0800, Michael Rueger wrote:
Keith Hodges wrote:
We will include it.
Thanks, we will try with Pharo then. Lautaro Fernández
I am confused. Surely you would expect a loadable package to remain loadable and only be called up if needed?
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core. This will allow us to have *one* mechanism for signaling/subscribing and can over time replace the different variants that are now used and provide a solid base for anyone needing such a mechanism. In the experimental forks I have worked on having Announcements available made all the difference.
Does that mean that the EventManager, package System-Object Events and the methods in Object will be replaced by that? If yes I'm all for it! Norbert
We will include it.
Thanks, we will try with Pharo then. Lautaro Fernández I am confused. Surely you would expect a loadable package to remain loadable and only be called up if needed?
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core. This will allow us to have *one* mechanism for signaling/ subscribing and can over time replace the different variants that are now used and provide a solid base for anyone needing such a mechanism. In the experimental forks I have worked on having Announcements available made all the difference.
Does that mean that the EventManager, package System-Object Events and the methods in Object will be replaced by that? If yes I'm all for it!
Would be nice. I think that this is a reaslistic goal. But not for 1.0 :)
Norbert
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2009/2/26 Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name>:
On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 07:45 -0800, Michael Rueger wrote:
Keith Hodges wrote:
  We will include it.
Thanks, we will try with Pharo then. Lautaro Fernández I am confused. Surely you would expect a loadable package to remain loadable and only be called up if needed?
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core. This will allow us to have *one* mechanism for signaling/subscribing and can over time replace the different variants that are now used and provide a solid base for anyone needing such a mechanism. In the experimental forks I have worked on having Announcements available made all the difference.
Does that mean that the EventManager, package System-Object Events and the methods in Object will be replaced by that? If yes I'm all for it!
I will examine it more closely.
Norbert
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On Feb 26, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Michael Rueger wrote:
Keith Hodges wrote:
We will include it.
Thanks, we will try with Pharo then. Lautaro Fernández I am confused. Surely you would expect a loadable package to remain loadable and only be called up if needed?
Although I'm normally the first to argue against including more stuff
Yeap we know
into the core image I think Announcements need to be part of core. This will allow us to have *one* mechanism for signaling/subscribing and can over time replace the different variants that are now used and provide a solid base for anyone needing such a mechanism. In the experimental forks I have worked on having Announcements available made all the difference.
Michael
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If you include it, please take the latest version Announcements-lr.13 from <http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/announcements/>. I added a comment pointing to Vassili's blog and improved the tests. Furthermore I removed the class StateMachine (described here <http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?entry=3346524723>) that I don't think is a license clean re-implementation. If we need it, somebody should read the blog and re-implement it without looking at the code. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
ok I will Stef On Mar 2, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
If you include it, please take the latest version Announcements-lr.13 from <http://source.lukas-renggli.ch/announcements/>.
I added a comment pointing to Vassili's blog and improved the tests. Furthermore I removed the class StateMachine (described here <http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/vbykov/blogView?entry=3346524723
) that I don't think is a license clean re-implementation. If we need it, somebody should read the blog and re-implement it without looking at the code.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 16:28 -0800, Michael Rueger wrote:
Hi all,
should we add Announcements as part of the core image? And if so, which of the existing implementations?
I started to use AXAnnouncements in the early 2007. It is used much in my application. While resurrecting the project the last month I changed it to use Lukas' Announcements. All I had to do was changing a call when:do:for to subscribe:do:for Works like a charm! Norbert
participants (14)
-
Damien Cassou -
Igor Stasenko -
Janko Mivšek -
Jérôme -
Keith Hodges -
Lautaro Fernández -
Lukas Renggli -
Michael Rueger -
Miguel Enrique Cobá MartÃnez -
Norbert Hartl -
Ramon Leon -
Rob Rothwell -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Tudor Girba