Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ?
On 11 oct. 2010, at 15:17, Igor Stasenko wrote:
Also, i remember someone presented the namespaces implementation during last ESUG conference. Its fresh, and probably will run on pharo. But i don't remember who did this.
Here you go, it's a GSOC project, video included: Begin forwarded message:
From: James Foster <Smalltalk@JGFoster.net> Date: 24 septembre 2010 00:09:39 HAEC To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr, ESUG Mailing list <esug-list@lists.esug.org> Subject: [Pharo-project] GSoC Project for Namespaces Reply-To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr
Germán Leiva was accepted in Google Summer of Code 2010 and developed a Namespaces implementation for Pharo Smalltalk. A video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4I7fSVNX2A is based on his presentation at ESUG in Barcelona last week. You can get the code at http://www.squeaksource.com/Environments.html.
James Foster _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Simon
I'm glad to see that it works like class names (at least effectively) as messages to environments than a clone of Java syntax that I saw elsewhere. On the completely pragmatic level, it will make more obvious the fact that our browser selection panes are not individually sizable. I find them narrow at times now, and adding another column will squeeze even more. Maybe I find them narrow specifically because I use long class names that would not be necessary if we had namespaces :) ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Simon Denier [Simon.Denier@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:23 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ? On 11 oct. 2010, at 15:17, Igor Stasenko wrote: Also, i remember someone presented the namespaces implementation during last ESUG conference. Its fresh, and probably will run on pharo. But i don't remember who did this. Here you go, it's a GSOC project, video included: Begin forwarded message: From: James Foster <Smalltalk@JGFoster.net<mailto:Smalltalk@JGFoster.net>> Date: 24 septembre 2010 00:09:39 HAEC To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>, ESUG Mailing list <esug-list@lists.esug.org<mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org>> Subject: [Pharo-project] GSoC Project for Namespaces Reply-To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Germán Leiva was accepted in Google Summer of Code 2010 and developed a Namespaces implementation for Pharo Smalltalk. A video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4I7fSVNX2A is based on his presentation at ESUG in Barcelona last week. You can get the code at http://www.squeaksource.com/Environments.html. James Foster _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Simon
On 11 October 2010 16:59, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
I'm glad to see that it works like class names (at least effectively) as messages to environments than a clone of Java syntax that I saw elsewhere. Â On the completely pragmatic level, it will make more obvious the fact that our browser selection panes are not individually sizable. Â I find them narrow at times now, and adding another column will squeeze even more. Â Maybe I find them narrow specifically because I use long class names that would not be necessary if we had namespaces :)
Yep. Fixing UI could be seen as a separate problem. But since traditionally, smalltalk seen as a language AND environment, so in order to use it, we should do the both, otherwise nobody will use it. P.S. i like the design of Environments. Its not intrusive (no syntax changes), and coexists peacefully with existing code. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
The UI changes are indeed a separate problem; if anything, this will make them more likely to happen as more people will run into the need for more space in the class and method columns at the expense of the others. Agreed that it looks like a smooth way to add the functionality. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko [siguctua@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:15 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ? On 11 October 2010 16:59, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
I'm glad to see that it works like class names (at least effectively) as messages to environments than a clone of Java syntax that I saw elsewhere. On the completely pragmatic level, it will make more obvious the fact that our browser selection panes are not individually sizable. I find them narrow at times now, and adding another column will squeeze even more. Maybe I find them narrow specifically because I use long class names that would not be necessary if we had namespaces :)
Yep. Fixing UI could be seen as a separate problem. But since traditionally, smalltalk seen as a language AND environment, so in order to use it, we should do the both, otherwise nobody will use it. P.S. i like the design of Environments. Its not intrusive (no syntax changes), and coexists peacefully with existing code. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Ok, first of all thank you all ! It' s definetely a nice welcome for me, from the list. Let me point out one things or two though: It whould be nice to have PEPs (Pharo Enhancement Proposals), for these major issues. See PEP for Python: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ . Smalltalk is so powerfull that Namespaces can be done in a (large) number of ways. For example should the namespaces have an hierarchy ? Should the Inheritance hierarcy of classes be able to 'break' the boundaries of namespaces ? Should namespaces be first-class ? (ok, yes..), and the list goes on. For example there currently exist a setter in the class side for 'migratting' in a new environment, that just alters the class knowledge about the new namespace and does not erase it's record from the old namespace. Is this intented ? What is the underlying design ? Should we add an environment: setter in the subclass message, so that we integrate namespaces with the current Browser ? Should Behavior always return Smalltalk globals, or there should be a setter to be able to migrate a whole hierarchy of classes elsewhere ? Ok.. hope next time I will posting code instead of questions. Thank you very much, Nick On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>wrote:
I'm glad to see that it works like class names (at least effectively) as messages to environments than a clone of Java syntax that I saw elsewhere. On the completely pragmatic level, it will make more obvious the fact that our browser selection panes are not individually sizable. I find them narrow at times now, and adding another column will squeeze even more. Maybe I find them narrow specifically because I use long class names that would not be necessary if we had namespaces :)
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [ pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Simon Denier [ Simon.Denier@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:23 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ?
On 11 oct. 2010, at 15:17, Igor Stasenko wrote:
Also, i remember someone presented the namespaces implementation during last ESUG conference. Its fresh, and probably will run on pharo. But i don't remember who did this.
Here you go, it's a GSOC project, video included:
Begin forwarded message:
From: James Foster <Smalltalk@JGFoster.net<mailto:Smalltalk@JGFoster.net>> Date: 24 septembre 2010 00:09:39 HAEC To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>, ESUG Mailing list < esug-list@lists.esug.org<mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org>> Subject: [Pharo-project] GSoC Project for Namespaces Reply-To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>
Germán Leiva was accepted in Google Summer of Code 2010 and developed a Namespaces implementation for Pharo Smalltalk. A video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4I7fSVNX2A is based on his presentation at ESUG in Barcelona last week. You can get the code at http://www.squeaksource.com/Environments.html.
James Foster _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Simon
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Nick, Just first reactions, but: (1) questions about integration with the browsers go to Lukas and others who are doing that work; (2) keep the design simple and consistent with "everything is an object, all computation happens by sending messages to objects" (3) use (2) vs. creating new syntax So far, you are well on the way toward (2,3). Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nick Papoylias [npapoylias@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:43 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ? Ok, first of all thank you all ! It' s definetely a nice welcome for me, from the list. Let me point out one things or two though: It whould be nice to have PEPs (Pharo Enhancement Proposals), for these major issues. See PEP for Python: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ . Smalltalk is so powerfull that Namespaces can be done in a (large) number of ways. For example should the namespaces have an hierarchy ? Should the Inheritance hierarcy of classes be able to 'break' the boundaries of namespaces ? Should namespaces be first-class ? (ok, yes..), and the list goes on. For example there currently exist a setter in the class side for 'migratting' in a new environment, that just alters the class knowledge about the new namespace and does not erase it's record from the old namespace. Is this intented ? What is the underlying design ? Should we add an environment: setter in the subclass message, so that we integrate namespaces with the current Browser ? Should Behavior always return Smalltalk globals, or there should be a setter to be able to migrate a whole hierarchy of classes elsewhere ? Ok.. hope next time I will posting code instead of questions. Thank you very much, Nick On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: I'm glad to see that it works like class names (at least effectively) as messages to environments than a clone of Java syntax that I saw elsewhere. On the completely pragmatic level, it will make more obvious the fact that our browser selection panes are not individually sizable. I find them narrow at times now, and adding another column will squeeze even more. Maybe I find them narrow specifically because I use long class names that would not be necessary if we had namespaces :) ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of Simon Denier [Simon.Denier@inria.fr<mailto:Simon.Denier@inria.fr>] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:23 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Hallo Pharoers.. namespaces in the system level ? On 11 oct. 2010, at 15:17, Igor Stasenko wrote: Also, i remember someone presented the namespaces implementation during last ESUG conference. Its fresh, and probably will run on pharo. But i don't remember who did this. Here you go, it's a GSOC project, video included: Begin forwarded message: From: James Foster <Smalltalk@JGFoster.net<mailto:Smalltalk@JGFoster.net<mailto:Smalltalk@JGFoster.net>>> Date: 24 septembre 2010 00:09:39 HAEC To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>>, ESUG Mailing list <esug-list@lists.esug.org<mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org><mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org<mailto:esug-list@lists.esug.org>>> Subject: [Pharo-project] GSoC Project for Namespaces Reply-To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> Germán Leiva was accepted in Google Summer of Code 2010 and developed a Namespaces implementation for Pharo Smalltalk. A video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4I7fSVNX2A is based on his presentation at ESUG in Barcelona last week. You can get the code at http://www.squeaksource.com/Environments.html. James Foster _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Simon _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
participants (4)
-
Igor Stasenko -
Nick Papoylias -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Simon Denier