[Pharo-project] Pharo on Apple App Store
Hi, is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ? Laurent
Hi, yes you can! ...but the application must be code signed :) best, Esteban El 04/03/2011, a las 5:53a.m., laurent laffont escribió:
Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
What does it mean? I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it. Cheers, Alexandre On 4 Mar 2011, at 10:04, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
Hi, yes you can! ...but the application must be code signed :)
best, Esteban
El 04/03/2011, a las 5:53a.m., laurent laffont escribió:
Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Le 04/03/2011 14:14, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
What does it mean? I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it.
Yes, nevertheless you may want to take the alternative high speed train.
Which is? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Which is?
Alexandre
I read prediction Android may take it all.
Remember the '80 with the PC open standard? Now it is the software which is standard and pretty sure the Asian manufacturers will jump into, no?
Ah ah! I have a different opinion. I think the humanity, now, cannot produce a reliable and efficient operating system that works on many different platforms while caring about the user. The effort is simply too big. Microsoft knows about it. State-of-the-Art formal verification techniques simply cannot ensure that a driver will not crash your machine. And so, whatever the amount of money poured into it. By shipping the hardware, Apple is playing on a safe side. So, in my opinion, something like Ipad will rule on some point: a few different platforms, gorgeous interface, regarding the user as an intelligent being. Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>wrote:
Which is?
Alexandre
I read prediction Android may take it all.
Remember the '80 with the PC open standard? Now it is the software which is standard and pretty sure the Asian manufacturers will jump into, no?
Ah ah! I have a different opinion. I think the humanity, now, cannot produce a reliable and efficient operating system that works on many different platforms while caring about the user.
Do you want to build the best OS ever? Just write a nice/sexy UI with: - a program to chat with all MSN/iChat/skype/etc - firefox (consider using a that a microsoft office like website for words, excels, etc) - a program to listen to music - a program to watch videos - a program to read pdfs And that's all. You have covered 90% of the needs of 90% of the existen users. An OS that never fails, and that has just 5 buttons for those things, is all they need. Don't even put names to programs, jsut: "chat" "internet" "music" "videos" and "pictures" cheers mariano
The effort is simply too big. Microsoft knows about it. State-of-the-Art formal verification techniques simply cannot ensure that a driver will not crash your machine. And so, whatever the amount of money poured into it.
By shipping the hardware, Apple is playing on a safe side. So, in my opinion, something like Ipad will rule on some point: a few different platforms, gorgeous interface, regarding the user as an intelligent being.
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>wrote:
Which is?
Alexandre
I read prediction Android may take it all.
Remember the '80 with the PC open standard? Now it is the software which is standard and pretty sure the Asian manufacturers will jump into, no?
Ah ah! I have a different opinion. I think the humanity, now, cannot produce a reliable and efficient operating system that works on many different platforms while caring about the user.
Do you want to build the best OS ever? Just write a nice/sexy UI with:
- a program to chat with all MSN/iChat/skype/etc - firefox (consider using a that a microsoft office like website for words, excels, etc) - a program to listen to music - a program to watch videos - a program to read pdfs
And that's all. You have covered 90% of the needs of 90% of the existen users. An OS that never fails, and that has just 5 buttons for those things, is all they need. Don't even put names to programs, jsut: "chat" "internet" "music" "videos" and "pictures"
cool ! An OS flamewar begins ! Love this. Linux rulez !!!!! Laurent
cheers
mariano
The effort is simply too big. Microsoft knows about it. State-of-the-Art formal verification techniques simply cannot ensure that a driver will not crash your machine. And so, whatever the amount of money poured into it.
By shipping the hardware, Apple is playing on a safe side. So, in my opinion, something like Ipad will rule on some point: a few different platforms, gorgeous interface, regarding the user as an intelligent being.
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:15 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont@gmail.com>wrote:
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com
wrote:
Which is?
Alexandre
I read prediction Android may take it all.
Remember the '80 with the PC open standard? Now it is the software which is standard and pretty sure the Asian manufacturers will jump into, no?
Ah ah! I have a different opinion. I think the humanity, now, cannot produce a reliable and efficient operating system that works on many different platforms while caring about the user.
Do you want to build the best OS ever? Just write a nice/sexy UI with:
- a program to chat with all MSN/iChat/skype/etc - firefox (consider using a that a microsoft office like website for words, excels, etc) - a program to listen to music - a program to watch videos - a program to read pdfs
And that's all. You have covered 90% of the needs of 90% of the existen users. An OS that never fails, and that has just 5 buttons for those things, is all they need. Don't even put names to programs, jsut: "chat" "internet" "music" "videos" and "pictures"
cool ! An OS flamewar begins ! Love this. Linux rulez !!!!!
sure. Whatever. (I was a linux guy too, but now I have a mac hahah). Pute those 6 buttons in fullscreen, with those 6 tols and you have the perfect and easy to understand/use OS.
Laurent
cheers
mariano
The effort is simply too big. Microsoft knows about it. State-of-the-Art formal verification techniques simply cannot ensure that a driver will not crash your machine. And so, whatever the amount of money poured into it.
By shipping the hardware, Apple is playing on a safe side. So, in my opinion, something like Ipad will rule on some point: a few different platforms, gorgeous interface, regarding the user as an intelligent being.
Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Hi-- (Conversation between Alexandre and Hilaire:)
I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it.
Yes, nevertheless you may want to take the alternative high speed train.
Which is?
I know it's probably not the sort of alternative you had in mind, but is anyone here interested in at least getting Pharo into Cydia? (Cydia is, among other things, the "app store" for folks who have jailbroken their iOS devices.) I'm sure several people would find it useful; it'd be a convenient way to get Pharo onto iThings and it would run with its full capabilities. -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 06 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547
This is *my* roadmap: 1) we create a repeatable vm build process (I'm working on that with Igor... taking more time than desired, but we are *almost* there). This step is good for going into app store because that way people can build and code-sign the vms with their own signatures. (AFAIK, you can't sign the binaries, but I might be wrong... not fully checked yet) 2) well... you don't need anything else, once you can sign, you can upload with your developer account :) There is also "design guidelines" for OSX, which you'll need to follow. But I'm uncertain on how this will affect pharo applications. best, Esteban El 04/03/2011, a las 10:36a.m., Hilaire Fernandes escribió:
Le 04/03/2011 14:14, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
What does it mean? I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it.
Yes, nevertheless you may want to take the alternative high speed train.
I like this plan.! One click VM building :)
This is *my* roadmap:
1) we create a repeatable vm build process (I'm working on that with Igor... taking more time than desired, but we are *almost* there). This step is good for going into app store because that way people can build and code-sign the vms with their own signatures. (AFAIK, you can't sign the binaries, but I might be wrong... not fully checked yet) 2) well... you don't need anything else, once you can sign, you can upload with your developer account :)
There is also "design guidelines" for OSX, which you'll need to follow. But I'm uncertain on how this will affect pharo applications.
best, Esteban
El 04/03/2011, a las 10:36a.m., Hilaire Fernandes escribió:
Le 04/03/2011 14:14, Alexandre Bergel a écrit :
What does it mean? I think we should have a clear roadmap on how to get a pharo application in the appstore. The train is passing by and we are not taking it.
Yes, nevertheless you may want to take the alternative high speed train.
Le 04/03/2011 14:52, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
There is also "design guidelines" for OSX, which you'll need to follow. But I'm uncertain on how this will affect pharo applications.
At the image there are some work to have good UI infrastructure matching a bit the design guideline. First job will be to work on a dedicated Polymoprh theme, I can help but I will not do it alone. Hilaire -- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire
Nice to see this interest for pharo on iPAD We should put our energy collectively to build an acceptable pharo environment for ipad/iphone. Bert and I have been investigating the field, but more help will be handy as we are both very busy. Hilaire Le 04/03/2011 09:53, laurent laffont a écrit :
Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
-- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire
I found a tutorial on the Blitzbasic forum. It seems possible with Pharo. http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=93636 Olivier ;-) www.auverlot.fr
Nice to see this interest for pharo on iPAD We should put our energy collectively to build an acceptable pharo environment for ipad/iphone. Bert and I have been investigating the field, but more help will be handy as we are both very busy.
Hilaire
Le 04/03/2011 09:53, laurent laffont a écrit :
Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
ha! I didn't know codesign online tool exists... thanks for the point :) El 04/03/2011, a las 10:51a.m., Olivier Auverlot escribió:
I found a tutorial on the Blitzbasic forum. It seems possible with Pharo.
http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=93636
Olivier ;-) www.auverlot.fr
Nice to see this interest for pharo on iPAD We should put our energy collectively to build an acceptable pharo environment for ipad/iphone. Bert and I have been investigating the field, but more help will be handy as we are both very busy.
Hilaire
Le 04/03/2011 09:53, laurent laffont a écrit :
Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
Well... I'm willing to help there... at least at a VM level, is also my "job" :) El 04/03/2011, a las 10:41a.m., Hilaire Fernandes escribió:
Nice to see this interest for pharo on iPAD We should put our energy collectively to build an acceptable pharo environment for ipad/iphone. Bert and I have been investigating the field, but more help will be handy as we are both very busy.
Hilaire
Le 04/03/2011 09:53, laurent laffont a écrit :
Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
-- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire
I'm not sure anyone really answered the question. (a) Yes you can build squeak/pharo VM based applications for the iOS platform and distribute in the App Store. This assumes you adhere to the rules. (b) Yes you can build Squeak/pharo VM based applications for the OS-X platform and distribute in the OS-X App Store. This assumes someone wants to take the time to port the file dialog logic from Sophie to Pharo since you will be rejected if you present a Squeak file open/save dialog. Lastly you can't download MC packages to the app for doing on the fly updates, any updates have to go thru the app store. An example of alternate technology is Sparkle and Apple has rejected apps that use that technology to provide an update path. PS No I can't say I've actually attempted getting a squeak based app into the OS-X store, perhaps this summer, still that is my tea leaf reading of the situation. On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:53 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:19 AM, John McIntosh < johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> wrote:
I'm not sure anyone really answered the question.
(a) Yes you can build squeak/pharo VM based applications for the iOS platform and distribute in the App Store. This assumes you adhere to the rules.
(b) Yes you can build Squeak/pharo VM based applications for the OS-X platform and distribute in the OS-X App Store. This assumes someone wants to take the time to port the file dialog logic from Sophie to Pharo since you will be rejected if you present a Squeak file open/save dialog.
Thanks John. Is the licence of Sophie file dialog code MIT ? Laurent Lastly you can't download MC packages to the app for doing on the fly
updates, any updates have to go thru the app store. An example of alternate technology is Sparkle and Apple has rejected apps that use that technology to provide an update path.
PS No I can't say I've actually attempted getting a squeak based app into the OS-X store, perhaps this summer, still that is my tea leaf reading of the situation.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:53 AM, laurent laffont < laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
On Mar 5, 2011, at 12:14 PM, laurent laffont wrote:
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:19 AM, John McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> wrote: I'm not sure anyone really answered the question.
(a) Yes you can build squeak/pharo VM based applications for the iOS platform and distribute in the App Store. This assumes you adhere to the rules.
(b) Yes you can build Squeak/pharo VM based applications for the OS-X platform and distribute in the OS-X App Store. This assumes someone wants to take the time to port the file dialog logic from Sophie to Pharo since you will be rejected if you present a Squeak file open/save dialog.
Thanks John.
Is the licence of Sophie file dialog code MIT ?
Yes but we do not really want to have the copyright of a university in pharo. This is why alain rewrote from scratch the undo. Stef
Laurent
Lastly you can't download MC packages to the app for doing on the fly updates, any updates have to go thru the app store. An example of alternate technology is Sparkle and Apple has rejected apps that use that technology to provide an update path.
PS No I can't say I've actually attempted getting a squeak based app into the OS-X store, perhaps this summer, still that is my tea leaf reading of the situation.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:53 AM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont@gmail.com> wrote: Hi,
is it possible today to distribute Pharo apps through Apple App Store (OSX) ? If no, why ? Can I hope it will be possible or should I learn objective-C ?
Laurent
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
participants (9)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Craig Latta -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Hilaire Fernandes -
John McIntosh -
laurent laffont -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Olivier Auverlot -
Stéphane Ducasse