While I was on holiday, it seems my dear friends have gone feature crazy... almost as bad as me in the run up to the 2.0 release, ha ha. As cool as they are, are: - changing the look of Nautilus buttons - evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight - etc, etc showstopping bugs?! This beta time is reserved specifically for finding the bugs that may inevitably be introduced with these enhancements. We really may be creating a mess, as end users find them in our "stable" release instead. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Release-Mode-tp4751408.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:52, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
While I was on holiday, it seems my dear friends have gone feature crazy... almost as bad as me in the run up to the 2.0 release, ha ha.
As cool as they are, are: - changing the look of Nautilus buttons - evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight - etc, etc showstopping bugs?!
This beta time is reserved specifically for finding the bugs that may inevitably be introduced with these enhancements. We really may be creating a mess, as end users find them in our "stable" release instead.
Yes, it was wrong⦠maybe we should revert. Marcus
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:00, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:52, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
While I was on holiday, it seems my dear friends have gone feature crazy... almost as bad as me in the run up to the 2.0 release, ha ha.
As cool as they are, are: - changing the look of Nautilus buttons - evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight - etc, etc showstopping bugs?!
This beta time is reserved specifically for finding the bugs that may inevitably be introduced with these enhancements. We really may be creating a mess, as end users find them in our "stable" release instead.
Yes, it was wrong⦠maybe we should revert.
Marcus
Yes, maybe ;-) I don't like the red (ish) / orange rectangle around dirty text areas (instead of the orange thing in the corner) - Where did that come from ? Did we discuss about that ? PS: I marked the 'evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight' not as a bug, but an enhancement, with would be nice priority, but indeed for 3.0 - but I certainly cannot blame Markus either - and BTW, there was a discussion about it, people tested it and nobody said no - and it is a perfectly safe change ;-) PS2: I do have a bit of a problem with people being so vocally against changes, unless they are fixing the hard bugs themselves instead. If we all do nothing, the release won't get better, right ?
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:17, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:00, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:52, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
While I was on holiday, it seems my dear friends have gone feature crazy... almost as bad as me in the run up to the 2.0 release, ha ha.
As cool as they are, are: - changing the look of Nautilus buttons - evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight - etc, etc showstopping bugs?!
This beta time is reserved specifically for finding the bugs that may inevitably be introduced with these enhancements. We really may be creating a mess, as end users find them in our "stable" release instead.
Yes, it was wrong⦠maybe we should revert.
Marcus
Yes, maybe ;-)
I don't like the red (ish) / orange rectangle around dirty text areas (instead of the orange thing in the corner) - Where did that come from ? Did we discuss about that ?
I thought that the refactoring of the themes was just a refactoring (not changing anything).
<Screen Shot 2014-03-28 at 16.14.56.png>
PS: I marked the 'evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight' not as a bug, but an enhancement, with would be nice priority, but indeed for 3.0 - but I certainly cannot blame Markus either - and BTW, there was a discussion about it, people tested it and nobody said no - and it is a perfectly safe change ;-)
PS2: I do have a bit of a problem with people being so vocally against changes, unless they are fixing the hard bugs themselves instead. If we all do nothing, the release won't get better, right ?
I know that I will not integrate anything anymoreâ¦. I wait till people send mails to the list to ask to integrate something, and at least 3 people vote positive. Marcus
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:17, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:00, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:52, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
While I was on holiday, it seems my dear friends have gone feature crazy... almost as bad as me in the run up to the 2.0 release, ha ha.
As cool as they are, are: - changing the look of Nautilus buttons - evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight - etc, etc showstopping bugs?!
This beta time is reserved specifically for finding the bugs that may inevitably be introduced with these enhancements. We really may be creating a mess, as end users find them in our "stable" release instead.
Yes, it was wrong... maybe we should revert.
Marcus
Yes, maybe ;-)
I don't like the red (ish) / orange rectangle around dirty text areas (instead of the orange thing in the corner) - Where did that come from ? Did we discuss about that ?
I thought that the refactoring of the themes was just a refactoring (not changing anything).
<Screen Shot 2014-03-28 at 16.14.56.png>
PS: I marked the 'evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight' not as a bug, but an enhancement, with would be nice priority, but indeed for 3.0 - but I certainly cannot blame Markus either - and BTW, there was a discussion about it, people tested it and nobody said no - and it is a perfectly safe change ;-)
PS2: I do have a bit of a problem with people being so vocally against changes, unless they are fixing the hard bugs themselves instead. If we all do nothing, the release won't get better, right ?
I know that I will not integrate anything anymore.... I wait till people send mails to the list to ask to integrate something, and at least 3 people vote positive.
Marcus
My fault. The submitted slice had some legitimate Theme bug fixes but mixed in was flattening of the Theme hierarchy by moving Pharo3Theme to subclass from UITheme rather than UIThemeWatery. That part was "cleanup" rather than "bug fix" and I had some concerns which I failed to voice. To revert that part I've uploaded SLICE-Issue-13114-Broken-PharoTheme-BenComan.3. Hilaire, Could you review this to check it looks okay. For overall effect this slice should be reviewed against build 30802. http://files.pharo.org/image/30/30802.zip
-ben
I'l try that last one as the previous one brings weird effects on Nautilus navigation. I was loading a 30802 and applied several UI-related slices to it and the results weren't pretty. I have done a set of Gofer loads that I'll post later for interested people to test. Phil
I agree with you Ben, problem was the fix I did for broekn watery theme also interlaced with the clean up in the hierachy. My suggestion is to mark the unwished visual changes in the Pharo3 theme as bug for Pharo 4, then proceed. Hilaire Le 28/03/2014 19:40, Ben Coman a écrit :
My fault. The submitted slice had some legitimate Theme bug fixes but mixed in was flattening of the Theme hierarchy by moving Pharo3Theme to subclass from UITheme rather than UIThemeWatery. That part was "cleanup" rather than "bug fix" and I had some concerns which I failed to voice. To revert that part I've uploaded SLICE-Issue-13114-Broken-PharoTheme-BenComan.3. Hilaire, Could you review this to check it looks okay. For overall effect this slice should be reviewed against build 30802. http://files.pharo.org/image/30/30802.zip
-- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu
Am 28.03.2014 um 16:17 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:00, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 15:52, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
While I was on holiday, it seems my dear friends have gone feature crazy... almost as bad as me in the run up to the 2.0 release, ha ha.
As cool as they are, are: - changing the look of Nautilus buttons - evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight - etc, etc showstopping bugs?!
This beta time is reserved specifically for finding the bugs that may inevitably be introduced with these enhancements. We really may be creating a mess, as end users find them in our "stable" release instead.
Yes, it was wrong⦠maybe we should revert.
Marcus
Yes, maybe ;-)
I don't like the red (ish) / orange rectangle around dirty text areas (instead of the orange thing in the corner) - Where did that come from ? Did we discuss about that ?
<Screen Shot 2014-03-28 at 16.14.56.png>
PS: I marked the 'evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight' not as a bug, but an enhancement, with would be nice priority, but indeed for 3.0 - but I certainly cannot blame Markus either - and BTW, there was a discussion about it, people tested it and nobody said no - and it is a perfectly safe change ;-)
There is no perfectly safe change.
PS2: I do have a bit of a problem with people being so vocally against changes, unless they are fixing the hard bugs themselves instead. If we all do nothing, the release won't get better, right ?
A release does not get better if you change non-bug related stuff while being in freeze. The only thing that happens is that you will postpone the release indefinite. This is such a basic thing that makes me wonder people are questioning at all. If you change the code the odds are high you break something. Doing that without taking the time to think about will make it worse. If a release is in sight there is emotionally not much time left so no time to think. The result: you break stuff. Just like that. You might then discuss (again) the rules for success or what is important or even more important or most important or more most important. That is subject for discussion and highly subjective. On the other hand there is a hard fact: you break things! Period. Norbert
The look of nautilus button isn't "ok to integrate" since there is much more work needed to get this working properly. Now, the scrollbars in 2.0 really suck if you ask me. So, I'd vote for that one. Welcome back to the fray. Phil On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>wrote:
While I was on holiday, it seems my dear friends have gone feature crazy... almost as bad as me in the run up to the 2.0 release, ha ha.
As cool as they are, are: - changing the look of Nautilus buttons - evaluate arbitrary expressions in Spotlight - etc, etc showstopping bugs?!
This beta time is reserved specifically for finding the bugs that may inevitably be introduced with these enhancements. We really may be creating a mess, as end users find them in our "stable" release instead.
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Release-Mode-tp4751408.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:53, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
The look of nautilus button isn't "ok to integrate" since there is much more work needed to get this working properly.
Now, the scrollbars in 2.0 really suck if you ask me. So, I'd vote for that one.
Welcome back to the fray.
So lets revert all the updates of this week, from the problematic ones onwards. But I can only work on that next week. Marcus
2014-03-28 16:58 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:53, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
The look of nautilus button isn't "ok to integrate" since there is much more work needed to get this working properly.
Now, the scrollbars in 2.0 really suck if you ask me. So, I'd vote for that one.
Welcome back to the fray.
So lets revert all the updates of this week, from the problematic ones onwards.
But I can only work on that next week.
Marcus
Please No :) I am happy about any work that is done, even if it is "some" ui enhancement, even if it is in feautre freeze phase. Because, we are a just too small community. Most work is done in developers free time. We are providing some kind of a "product" (Pharo), but it is OUR product, we are mostly "commited to ourself". So, the most important point isn't a release date, but that we are communicating, discussing, talking about that changes. Yes, of course, I know it has to be ready at some point, it won't help if we are working on a pre-release version for years:) Please let us take that changes, hoping they don't introduced new bugs and discussing now everything where we had missed to talk about. Having said that. IF YOU have the time to work on Pharo and would like to do some enhancements now, ok! But try to step back for one minute and think to yourself: are there bugs I can resolve instead? do some code review instead? look at the new or really old (maybe all those forgotten) issues on the buglist. There are plenty of things that have to be done for the release. But of course any other change may be worthwhile as well (first impressions on UI related things may count ten times more then a handfull fixed bugs). And if you really want your changes now, make this explicit on the mailing list: "hey I would include this enhancement now, because ....., would do you think?" Nicolai
great mail :) On 28 Mar 2014, at 23:03, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-03-28 16:58 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:53, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
The look of nautilus button isn't "ok to integrate" since there is much more work needed to get this working properly.
Now, the scrollbars in 2.0 really suck if you ask me. So, I'd vote for that one.
Welcome back to the fray.
So lets revert all the updates of this week, from the problematic ones onwards.
But I can only work on that next week.
Marcus
Please No :)
I am happy about any work that is done, even if it is "some" ui enhancement, even if it is in feautre freeze phase. Because, we are a just too small community. Most work is done in developers free time. We are providing some kind of a "product" (Pharo), but it is OUR product, we are mostly "commited to ourself".
So, the most important point isn't a release date, but that we are communicating, discussing, talking about that changes. Yes, of course, I know it has to be ready at some point, it won't help if we are working on a pre-release version for years:)
Please let us take that changes, hoping they don't introduced new bugs and discussing now everything where we had missed to talk about.
Having said that. IF YOU have the time to work on Pharo and would like to do some enhancements now, ok! But try to step back for one minute and think to yourself: are there bugs I can resolve instead? do some code review instead? look at the new or really old (maybe all those forgotten) issues on the buglist.
There are plenty of things that have to be done for the release. But of course any other change may be worthwhile as well (first impressions on UI related things may count ten times more then a handfull fixed bugs).
And if you really want your changes now, make this explicit on the mailing list: "hey I would include this enhancement now, because ....., would do you think?"
Nicolai
+1 On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef@free.fr> wrote:
great mail :)
On 28 Mar 2014, at 23:03, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-03-28 16:58 GMT+01:00 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On 28 Mar 2014, at 16:53, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
The look of nautilus button isn't "ok to integrate" since there is much more work needed to get this working properly.
Now, the scrollbars in 2.0 really suck if you ask me. So, I'd vote for that one.
Welcome back to the fray.
So lets revert all the updates of this week, from the problematic ones onwards.
But I can only work on that next week.
Marcus
Please No :)
I am happy about any work that is done, even if it is "some" ui enhancement, even if it is in feautre freeze phase. Because, we are a just too small community. Most work is done in developers free time. We are providing some kind of a "product" (Pharo), but it is OUR product, we are mostly "commited to ourself".
So, the most important point isn't a release date, but that we are communicating, discussing, talking about that changes. Yes, of course, I know it has to be ready at some point, it won't help if we are working on a pre-release version for years:)
Please let us take that changes, hoping they don't introduced new bugs and discussing now everything where we had missed to talk about.
Having said that. IF YOU have the time to work on Pharo and would like to do some enhancements now, ok! But try to step back for one minute and think to yourself: are there bugs I can resolve instead? do some code review instead? look at the new or really old (maybe all those forgotten) issues on the buglist.
There are plenty of things that have to be done for the release. But of course any other change may be worthwhile as well (first impressions on UI related things may count ten times more then a handfull fixed bugs).
And if you really want your changes now, make this explicit on the mailing list: "hey I would include this enhancement now, because ....., would do you think?"
Nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
participants (10)
-
Ben Coman -
Hilaire Fernandes -
Marcus Denker -
Nicolai Hess -
Norbert Hartl -
Pharo4Stef -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Tudor Girba