[Pharo-project] newinspector?
Hi guys again I did a demo of smalltalk and the newInspecotr got in my way. I tried to analyze what did not work: - apparently the refresh does not work. Does change in instance variables get refreshed in the inspector? I try to understand what get in my way in general. - when an object has few instance variable I think that it is lost in the sea of trees. - I think that the |> class is not useful at the top level. May be just having Class: and the class Name is enough no need for the |> May be the Class : ByteString should appear after the Elements: - the |> methods to be useful should be sorted by category in the screenshot Why do I see the instance variable of the dictionary (array and tally) I find that confusing? Because I get elements and at the same time the instance variables. I do not understand why some lines are bold and other blue When we click on connectInfo I see on the right pane - size : 5 [#host] : a SocketAddress (size: 24) [#loginMethod] : #zork [#password] : nil [#port] : 110 [#user] : 'stephane.ducasse' But I cannot modify anything. What is the point to have Elements expanded in the left pane when I get the contents by clicking on the instance variable and getting the contents on the right. Then Keys should probably close to Elements. I do not see the point to have |> for individual method I do not understand why we see Elements and ByteCode I get a DNU when I click on Elements of a method BTW
Just yesterday, I asked Frederic to remove the class and method entries that add a lot of the noise and are most often not needed. He committed a new version with these changes. But from Stef's analysis it seems there is a bit more needed to make this inspector fly... And a really good inspector is key! Another item to add to Stef's list: what is the point of the item "Keys"? I can see the keys of the dictionary already by opening "Elements". So this seems superfluous. I wonder why inspecting a dictionary could not be reduced to the information that is actually of interest, namely the keys and their values. So when opening a dictionary, the subtree would directly display the keys in the left pane (no array, tally, Keys, Elements). If a key is selected, its value is printed in the right pane. Expanding a key would dive into its associated value. Actually, I think what I described here is more or less the behavior of the old explore tool. Cheers, Adrian On Nov 26, 2009, at 18:39 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi guys
again I did a demo of smalltalk and the newInspecotr got in my way. I tried to analyze what did not work: - apparently the refresh does not work. Does change in instance variables get refreshed in the inspector?
I try to understand what get in my way in general. - when an object has few instance variable I think that it is lost in the sea of trees.
- I think that the |> class is not useful at the top level. May be just having Class: and the class Name is enough no need for the |> May be the Class : ByteString should appear after the Elements:
- the |> methods to be useful should be sorted by category
in the screenshot Why do I see the instance variable of the dictionary (array and tally) I find that confusing? Because I get elements and at the same time the instance variables.
I do not understand why some lines are bold and other blue
When we click on connectInfo I see on the right pane - size : 5 [#host] : a SocketAddress (size: 24) [#loginMethod] : #zork [#password] : nil [#port] : 110 [#user] : 'stephane.ducasse' But I cannot modify anything.
What is the point to have Elements expanded in the left pane when I get the contents by clicking on the instance variable and getting the contents on the right.
Then Keys should probably close to Elements.
I do not see the point to have |> for individual method I do not understand why we see Elements and ByteCode I get a DNU when I click on Elements of a method BTW
<Screen shot 2009-11-26 at 6.14.31 PM.png>_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Ok I will check. may be we can have a mode that does not provide object interpretation (for dict we would only see tally and array not the dictionary, ...). Stef On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Just yesterday, I asked Frederic to remove the class and method entries that add a lot of the noise and are most often not needed. He committed a new version with these changes.
But from Stef's analysis it seems there is a bit more needed to make this inspector fly... And a really good inspector is key!
Another item to add to Stef's list: what is the point of the item "Keys"? I can see the keys of the dictionary already by opening "Elements". So this seems superfluous.
I wonder why inspecting a dictionary could not be reduced to the information that is actually of interest, namely the keys and their values. So when opening a dictionary, the subtree would directly display the keys in the left pane (no array, tally, Keys, Elements). If a key is selected, its value is printed in the right pane. Expanding a key would dive into its associated value. Actually, I think what I described here is more or less the behavior of the old explore tool.
Cheers, Adrian
On Nov 26, 2009, at 18:39 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi guys
again I did a demo of smalltalk and the newInspecotr got in my way. I tried to analyze what did not work: - apparently the refresh does not work. Does change in instance variables get refreshed in the inspector?
I try to understand what get in my way in general. - when an object has few instance variable I think that it is lost in the sea of trees.
- I think that the |> class is not useful at the top level. May be just having Class: and the class Name is enough no need for the |> May be the Class : ByteString should appear after the Elements:
- the |> methods to be useful should be sorted by category
in the screenshot Why do I see the instance variable of the dictionary (array and tally) I find that confusing? Because I get elements and at the same time the instance variables.
I do not understand why some lines are bold and other blue
When we click on connectInfo I see on the right pane - size : 5 [#host] : a SocketAddress (size: 24) [#loginMethod] : #zork [#password] : nil [#port] : 110 [#user] : 'stephane.ducasse' But I cannot modify anything.
What is the point to have Elements expanded in the left pane when I get the contents by clicking on the instance variable and getting the contents on the right.
Then Keys should probably close to Elements.
I do not see the point to have |> for individual method I do not understand why we see Elements and ByteCode I get a DNU when I click on Elements of a method BTW
<Screen shot 2009-11-26 at 6.14.31 PM.png>_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Rather than a mode for inspecting dictionaries, wouldn't it be better to have a subclass, say DictionaryInspector, which could be selected as needed by means of an #inspectorClass method. Then, if more specializations turn up, they could be added in the same way. Just a thought that struck me. -- Cheers, Peter. On 26 nov 2009, at 20.01, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Ok I will check. may be we can have a mode that does not provide object interpretation (for dict we would only see tally and array not the dictionary, ...).
Stef
On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Just yesterday, I asked Frederic to remove the class and method entries that add a lot of the noise and are most often not needed. He committed a new version with these changes.
But from Stef's analysis it seems there is a bit more needed to make this inspector fly... And a really good inspector is key!
Another item to add to Stef's list: what is the point of the item "Keys"? I can see the keys of the dictionary already by opening "Elements". So this seems superfluous.
I wonder why inspecting a dictionary could not be reduced to the information that is actually of interest, namely the keys and their values. So when opening a dictionary, the subtree would directly display the keys in the left pane (no array, tally, Keys, Elements). If a key is selected, its value is printed in the right pane. Expanding a key would dive into its associated value. Actually, I think what I described here is more or less the behavior of the old explore tool.
Cheers, Adrian
On Nov 26, 2009, at 18:39 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi guys
again I did a demo of smalltalk and the newInspecotr got in my way. I tried to analyze what did not work: - apparently the refresh does not work. Does change in instance variables get refreshed in the inspector?
I try to understand what get in my way in general. - when an object has few instance variable I think that it is lost in the sea of trees.
- I think that the |> class is not useful at the top level. May be just having Class: and the class Name is enough no need for the |> May be the Class : ByteString should appear after the Elements:
- the |> methods to be useful should be sorted by category
in the screenshot Why do I see the instance variable of the dictionary (array and tally) I find that confusing? Because I get elements and at the same time the instance variables.
I do not understand why some lines are bold and other blue
When we click on connectInfo I see on the right pane - size : 5 [#host] : a SocketAddress (size: 24) [#loginMethod] : #zork [#password] : nil [#port] : 110 [#user] : 'stephane.ducasse' But I cannot modify anything.
What is the point to have Elements expanded in the left pane when I get the contents by clicking on the instance variable and getting the contents on the right.
Then Keys should probably close to Elements.
I do not see the point to have |> for individual method I do not understand why we see Elements and ByteCode I get a DNU when I click on Elements of a method BTW
<Screen shot 2009-11-26 at 6.14.31 PM.png>_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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this is probably like that but you may want to be able to swicth (ie inspect dictionary as default objects.) On Nov 26, 2009, at 8:11 PM, Peter Hugosson-Miller wrote:
Rather than a mode for inspecting dictionaries, wouldn't it be better to have a subclass, say DictionaryInspector, which could be selected as needed by means of an #inspectorClass method. Then, if more specializations turn up, they could be added in the same way.
Just a thought that struck me.
-- Cheers, Peter.
On 26 nov 2009, at 20.01, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Ok I will check. may be we can have a mode that does not provide object interpretation (for dict we would only see tally and array not the dictionary, ...).
Stef
On Nov 26, 2009, at 7:40 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Just yesterday, I asked Frederic to remove the class and method entries that add a lot of the noise and are most often not needed. He committed a new version with these changes.
But from Stef's analysis it seems there is a bit more needed to make this inspector fly... And a really good inspector is key!
Another item to add to Stef's list: what is the point of the item "Keys"? I can see the keys of the dictionary already by opening "Elements". So this seems superfluous.
I wonder why inspecting a dictionary could not be reduced to the information that is actually of interest, namely the keys and their values. So when opening a dictionary, the subtree would directly display the keys in the left pane (no array, tally, Keys, Elements). If a key is selected, its value is printed in the right pane. Expanding a key would dive into its associated value. Actually, I think what I described here is more or less the behavior of the old explore tool.
Cheers, Adrian
On Nov 26, 2009, at 18:39 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi guys
again I did a demo of smalltalk and the newInspecotr got in my way. I tried to analyze what did not work: - apparently the refresh does not work. Does change in instance variables get refreshed in the inspector?
I try to understand what get in my way in general. - when an object has few instance variable I think that it is lost in the sea of trees.
- I think that the |> class is not useful at the top level. May be just having Class: and the class Name is enough no need for the |> May be the Class : ByteString should appear after the Elements:
- the |> methods to be useful should be sorted by category
in the screenshot Why do I see the instance variable of the dictionary (array and tally) I find that confusing? Because I get elements and at the same time the instance variables.
I do not understand why some lines are bold and other blue
When we click on connectInfo I see on the right pane - size : 5 [#host] : a SocketAddress (size: 24) [#loginMethod] : #zork [#password] : nil [#port] : 110 [#user] : 'stephane.ducasse' But I cannot modify anything.
What is the point to have Elements expanded in the left pane when I get the contents by clicking on the instance variable and getting the contents on the right.
Then Keys should probably close to Elements.
I do not see the point to have |> for individual method I do not understand why we see Elements and ByteCode I get a DNU when I click on Elements of a method BTW
<Screen shot 2009-11-26 at 6.14.31 PM.png>_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Hi Frederic, I just run into a problem: clicking on Elements of a NewInspector on a CompiledMethod gives an error: 'CompiledMethods may only be created with newMethod:header:' Shall I create an issue in the Pharo tracker? Adrian On Nov 26, 2009, at 19:40 , Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Just yesterday, I asked Frederic to remove the class and method entries that add a lot of the noise and are most often not needed. He committed a new version with these changes.
But from Stef's analysis it seems there is a bit more needed to make this inspector fly... And a really good inspector is key!
Another item to add to Stef's list: what is the point of the item "Keys"? I can see the keys of the dictionary already by opening "Elements". So this seems superfluous.
I wonder why inspecting a dictionary could not be reduced to the information that is actually of interest, namely the keys and their values. So when opening a dictionary, the subtree would directly display the keys in the left pane (no array, tally, Keys, Elements). If a key is selected, its value is printed in the right pane. Expanding a key would dive into its associated value. Actually, I think what I described here is more or less the behavior of the old explore tool.
Cheers, Adrian
On Nov 26, 2009, at 18:39 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi guys
again I did a demo of smalltalk and the newInspecotr got in my way. I tried to analyze what did not work: - apparently the refresh does not work. Does change in instance variables get refreshed in the inspector?
I try to understand what get in my way in general. - when an object has few instance variable I think that it is lost in the sea of trees.
- I think that the |> class is not useful at the top level. May be just having Class: and the class Name is enough no need for the |> May be the Class : ByteString should appear after the Elements:
- the |> methods to be useful should be sorted by category
in the screenshot Why do I see the instance variable of the dictionary (array and tally) I find that confusing? Because I get elements and at the same time the instance variables.
I do not understand why some lines are bold and other blue
When we click on connectInfo I see on the right pane - size : 5 [#host] : a SocketAddress (size: 24) [#loginMethod] : #zork [#password] : nil [#port] : 110 [#user] : 'stephane.ducasse' But I cannot modify anything.
What is the point to have Elements expanded in the left pane when I get the contents by clicking on the instance variable and getting the contents on the right.
Then Keys should probably close to Elements.
I do not see the point to have |> for individual method I do not understand why we see Elements and ByteCode I get a DNU when I click on Elements of a method BTW
<Screen shot 2009-11-26 at 6.14.31 PM.png>_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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participants (3)
-
Adrian Lienhard -
Peter Hugosson-Miller -
Stéphane Ducasse