transcript is plain bad
I can tell that it does not work when loading partial code because all the compiler warnings make sure that you cannot see anythingâ¦. I should have pushed my logger more. :(
The return of the toothpick is near. o/ On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>wrote:
I can tell that it does not work when loading partial code because all the compiler warnings make sure that you cannot see anythingâ¦. I should have pushed my logger more. :(
Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok? I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :) uko On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com> wrote:
Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok?
I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :)
uko
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
And missing a ton of methods. Teh StackInterpreterSimulator is agreeing with this statement. On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>wrote:
yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>wrote:
Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok?
I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :)
uko
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
On Dec 2, 2013, at 8:46 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
And missing a ton of methods.
Teh StackInterpreterSimulator is agreeing with this statement.
send us the ones that are missing. Please note that we should kill the transcript in the future because this is a ^%$&*((^%$* outdated way to manage feedback: plain string, close the window data is lost, limited in length, no filteringâ¦.. bad bad bad does not scale horrible and so frustrating. I will not send you the current transcript I have because I deal with private code but this does not work. Stef
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com> wrote: Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok?
I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :)
uko
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
I am working on this one. Don't kill the transcript, it is useful when working without a console. Now, adding the features you mention is not hard. And the top right triangle menu of Transcript could get a clue from the Workspace one with a Save As entry. I once had an issue with things like (out of the top of my head) FileStream stdout nextPutAll: 'hello'; cr; flush. when I went headless. The image worked at one point and the froze/locked. Until this is sorted out in full, keep a transcript handy. I gave the image to Guille who sent me back a version "unlocked" with Oz, but it still dies on Windows for example. Weird. Phil --- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 8:46 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
And missing a ton of methods.
Teh StackInterpreterSimulator is agreeing with this statement.
send us the ones that are missing.
Please note that we should kill the transcript in the future because this is a ^%$&*((^%$* outdated way to manage feedback: plain string, close the window data is lost, limited in length, no filteringâ¦.. bad bad bad does not scale horrible and so frustrating. I will not send you the current transcript I have because I deal with private code but this does not work.
Stef
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>wrote:
yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>wrote:
Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok?
I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :)
uko
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:34 AM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
I am working on this one.
Don't kill the transcript, it is useful when working without a console.
I will not kill it but it will just be dull outputer for my logger. In fact I'm missing a user interface (the idea was to build it with fernando) and right now the transcript just displays the printstring of my log objects. So I can even control what I want to output. more important I can filter the log ojbjects. For example I need to know when my framework finish to deal with a class and now this is mix with the compiler logherea
Now, adding the features you mention is not hard. And the top right triangle menu of Transcript could get a clue from the Workspace one with a Save As entry.
No i just DO NOT WANT STRINGS!!!!
I once had an issue with things like (out of the top of my head) FileStream stdout nextPutAll: 'hello'; cr; flush. when I went headless. The image worked at one point and the froze/locked. Until this is sorted out in full, keep a transcript handy.
I gave the image to Guille who sent me back a version "unlocked" with Oz, but it still dies on Windows for example. Weird.
Phil
--- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos
High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium
Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 8:46 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
And missing a ton of methods.
Teh StackInterpreterSimulator is agreeing with this statement.
send us the ones that are missing.
Please note that we should kill the transcript in the future because this is a ^%$&*((^%$* outdated way to manage feedback: plain string, close the window data is lost, limited in length, no filteringâ¦.. bad bad bad does not scale horrible and so frustrating. I will not send you the current transcript I have because I deal with private code but this does not work.
Stef
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com> wrote: Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok?
I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :)
uko
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
What's wrong with Strings anyway? But yeah, I understand your point. What I have done for my own stuff is to have a TLog aspect with info, debug, error, warn and, well, Strings. But double dispatch could take care of that, like printOn:, storeOn: etc. Do you have some code that I can look at? TLog>>info: anObject anObject logOn: Logger default info. Phil On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:34 AM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
I am working on this one.
Don't kill the transcript, it is useful when working without a console.
I will not kill it but it will just be dull outputer for my logger. In fact I'm missing a user interface (the idea was to build it with fernando) and right now the transcript just displays the printstring of my log objects. So I can even control what I want to output. more important I can filter the log ojbjects. For example I need to know when my framework finish to deal with a class and now this is mix with the compiler logherea
Now, adding the features you mention is not hard. And the top right triangle menu of Transcript could get a clue from the Workspace one with a Save As entry.
No i just DO NOT WANT STRINGS!!!!
I once had an issue with things like (out of the top of my head) FileStream stdout nextPutAll: 'hello'; cr; flush. when I went headless. The image worked at one point and the froze/locked. Until this is sorted out in full, keep a transcript handy.
I gave the image to Guille who sent me back a version "unlocked" with Oz, but it still dies on Windows for example. Weird.
Phil
--- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos
High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium
Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 8:46 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
And missing a ton of methods.
Teh StackInterpreterSimulator is agreeing with this statement.
send us the ones that are missing.
Please note that we should kill the transcript in the future because this is a ^%$&*((^%$* outdated way to manage feedback: plain string, close the window data is lost, limited in length, no filteringâ¦.. bad bad bad does not scale horrible and so frustrating. I will not send you the current transcript I have because I deal with private code but this does not work.
Stef
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>wrote:
yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>wrote:
Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok?
I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :)
uko
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
Am 03.12.2013 um 11:47 schrieb phil@highoctane.be:
What's wrong with Strings anyway? But yeah, I understand your point.
Strings are fine when you donât need specific behavior oder structure of your log messages anymore. A conversion to string should in most cases happen as late as possible. A log entry can still serve other purposes than represent an custom formatted string thing. Think about making all the exception handling in away that it can only signal strings. The same you feel now you would lose here is similar to the gain youâll get making log messages objects ;) It is just that you are used to objects when it comes to exceptions and you are used to strings when comes to log messages. The former being a good idea the latter not.
What I have done for my own stuff is to have a TLog aspect with info, debug, error, warn and, well, Strings. But double dispatch could take care of that, like printOn:, storeOn: etc.
Do you have some code that I can look at?
http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/SystemLogger Norbert
TLog>>info: anObject
anObject logOn: Logger default info.
Phil
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:34 AM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
I am working on this one.
Don't kill the transcript, it is useful when working without a console.
I will not kill it but it will just be dull outputer for my logger. In fact I'm missing a user interface (the idea was to build it with fernando) and right now the transcript just displays the printstring of my log objects. So I can even control what I want to output. more important I can filter the log ojbjects. For example I need to know when my framework finish to deal with a class and now this is mix with the compiler logherea
Now, adding the features you mention is not hard. And the top right triangle menu of Transcript could get a clue from the Workspace one with a Save As entry.
No i just DO NOT WANT STRINGS!!!!
I once had an issue with things like (out of the top of my head) FileStream stdout nextPutAll: 'hello'; cr; flush. when I went headless. The image worked at one point and the froze/locked. Until this is sorted out in full, keep a transcript handy.
I gave the image to Guille who sent me back a version "unlocked" with Oz, but it still dies on Windows for example. Weird.
Phil
--- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos
High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium
Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 8:46 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
And missing a ton of methods.
Teh StackInterpreterSimulator is agreeing with this statement.
send us the ones that are missing.
Please note that we should kill the transcript in the future because this is a ^%$&*((^%$* outdated way to manage feedback: plain string, close the window data is lost, limited in length, no filteringâ¦.. bad bad bad does not scale horrible and so frustrating. I will not send you the current transcript I have because I deal with private code but this does not work.
Stef
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com> wrote: Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok?
I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :)
uko
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
Sure have a look at SystemLogger http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/SystemLogger I did not check the changes made by norbert. I will work on it during xmas. Stef On Dec 3, 2013, at 11:47 AM, "phil@highoctane.be" <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
What's wrong with Strings anyway? But yeah, I understand your point.
What I have done for my own stuff is to have a TLog aspect with info, debug, error, warn and, well, Strings. But double dispatch could take care of that, like printOn:, storeOn: etc.
Do you have some code that I can look at?
TLog>>info: anObject
anObject logOn: Logger default info.
Phil
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:34 AM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
I am working on this one.
Don't kill the transcript, it is useful when working without a console.
I will not kill it but it will just be dull outputer for my logger. In fact I'm missing a user interface (the idea was to build it with fernando) and right now the transcript just displays the printstring of my log objects. So I can even control what I want to output. more important I can filter the log ojbjects. For example I need to know when my framework finish to deal with a class and now this is mix with the compiler logherea
Now, adding the features you mention is not hard. And the top right triangle menu of Transcript could get a clue from the Workspace one with a Save As entry.
No i just DO NOT WANT STRINGS!!!!
I once had an issue with things like (out of the top of my head) FileStream stdout nextPutAll: 'hello'; cr; flush. when I went headless. The image worked at one point and the froze/locked. Until this is sorted out in full, keep a transcript handy.
I gave the image to Guille who sent me back a version "unlocked" with Oz, but it still dies on Windows for example. Weird.
Phil
--- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos
High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium
Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2013, at 8:46 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
And missing a ton of methods.
Teh StackInterpreterSimulator is agreeing with this statement.
send us the ones that are missing.
Please note that we should kill the transcript in the future because this is a ^%$&*((^%$* outdated way to manage feedback: plain string, close the window data is lost, limited in length, no filteringâ¦.. bad bad bad does not scale horrible and so frustrating. I will not send you the current transcript I have because I deal with private code but this does not work.
Stef
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote: yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk@me.com> wrote: Buy the way, is absence of Transcript class - ok?
I know how it all works now, but is it ok? :)
uko
On 02 Dec 2013, at 19:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
yes, please :)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
Stef
EstebanLM wrote
yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
Does "ThreadSafe" mean I don't have to wrap all my debug logging in "WorldState addDeferredUIMessage: [ Transcript... ]? That would save a lot of time :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/transcript-is-plain-bad-tp4726795p4726848.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
2013/12/2 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
EstebanLM wrote
yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
Does "ThreadSafe" mean I don't have to wrap all my debug logging in "WorldState addDeferredUIMessage: [ Transcript... ]? That would save a lot of time :)
According to the implementation it means there is a Mutex stopping multiple processes from doing operations (#nextPut:, #nextPutAll:) at the same time. It is... who sends the message first will be received happily, whoever is second will have to wait in a semaphore :D Funny outputs might happen if two different senders use #nextPut: intertwined. (other frameworks only left "complete line" outputs to loggers, to avoid this kind of scenarios). Regards!
On 3 December 2013 02:59, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
2013/12/2 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
EstebanLM wrote
yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
Does "ThreadSafe" mean I don't have to wrap all my debug logging in "WorldState addDeferredUIMessage: [ Transcript... ]? That would save a lot of time :)
According to the implementation it means there is a Mutex stopping multiple processes from doing operations (#nextPut:, #nextPutAll:) at the same time. It is... who sends the message first will be received happily, whoever is second will have to wait in a semaphore :D
Funny outputs might happen if two different senders use #nextPut: intertwined. (other frameworks only left "complete line" outputs to loggers, to avoid this kind of scenarios).
imo this is exactly the case when for 0.00001% of chance that it will be required once, you spend tons of effort to make it work, means: overengineering.
And, btw, good luck with solving the Halting problem along the way when you will be implementing this 'complete line' (when multiple threads sending output, but don't allowed to mix the lines) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
On Dec 3, 2013, at 2:59 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
2013/12/2 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
EstebanLM wrote
yes, the transcript is ThreadSafeTranscript
Does "ThreadSafe" mean I don't have to wrap all my debug logging in "WorldState addDeferredUIMessage: [ Transcript... ]? That would save a lot of time :)
According to the implementation it means there is a Mutex stopping multiple processes from doing operations (#nextPut:, #nextPutAll:) at the same time. It is... who sends the message first will be received happily, whoever is second will have to wait in a semaphore :D
I did that because I was trying to write a chapter on concurrent programming and since the output could be in any order it was difficult to show anything reliably. Now the implementation can be bad and anybody willing to imporve it is more than welcome.
Funny outputs might happen if two different senders use #nextPut: intertwined. (other frameworks only left "complete line" outputs to loggers
What is is? In the new logger I'm writing we have log ***OBJECTS*** and not dead strings.
, to avoid this kind of scenarios).
Regards!
Am 02.12.2013 um 19:56 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
The return of the toothpick is near. o/
No I will finish my logger :)
From next week on I will have a little time to work on it, too. If you like we can discuss a few things and bring to some usable state.
Norbert
participants (8)
-
Esteban A. Maringolo -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Igor Stasenko -
Norbert Hartl -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Yuriy Tymchuk