Re: [Pharo-dev] Athens Repository (NativeBoost)
2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
both are integrated into the image. while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case⦠we have a problem for the future :P).
what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?
yes, we are slowly moving in the opposite direction of âall maintained in the imageâ, and eventually we plan/dream to have a small kernel and a bunch of configurations to produce Pharo.
now, about NB, we do not have special plans. it is in the image and it will be maintained as part of Pharo.
now, since the most common use of NB is for FFI, and NB is not present in all platforms, we are working (Ronie, in this case) in a âunified FFIâ, which will provide a common abstraction layer for several FFI frameworks (NB, OldFFI, Alienâ¦). With that, we can choose which one of the frameworks we use depending on the situation (but ideally, we will maintain just one, the one that fits better in Pharo). Again⦠this are just ideas for the future :)
Esteban
On 24 Nov 2014, at 23:23, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-11-24 20:41 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de>:
Hi,
were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated or still with an external config and on STHub?
The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day (trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4).
So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK.
But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and more packages using external configs again.
What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get synchronized? Or will it stay internal only?
Thx T.
I was about to ask the same question for Athens, the packages in pharo4 and sthub diverge. I can merge the sthub and pharo4 version for Athens (and mabe NB), I just don't know what is the plan for the feauture, manage packages for Athens and NB in the image or on sthub.
On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:31, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:
2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: both are integrated into the image. while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case⦠we have a problem for the future :P).
what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?
no idea⦠I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. Igor will know better :) Esteban
yes, we are slowly moving in the opposite direction of âall maintained in the imageâ, and eventually we plan/dream to have a small kernel and a bunch of configurations to produce Pharo.
now, about NB, we do not have special plans. it is in the image and it will be maintained as part of Pharo.
now, since the most common use of NB is for FFI, and NB is not present in all platforms, we are working (Ronie, in this case) in a âunified FFIâ, which will provide a common abstraction layer for several FFI frameworks (NB, OldFFI, Alienâ¦). With that, we can choose which one of the frameworks we use depending on the situation (but ideally, we will maintain just one, the one that fits better in Pharo). Again⦠this are just ideas for the future :)
Esteban
On 24 Nov 2014, at 23:23, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote:
2014-11-24 20:41 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de <mailto:astares@gmx.de>>: Hi,
were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated or still with an external config and on STHub?
The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day (trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4).
So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK.
But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and more packages using external configs again.
What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get synchronized? Or will it stay internal only?
Thx T.
I was about to ask the same question for Athens, the packages in pharo4 and sthub diverge. I can merge the sthub and pharo4 version for Athens (and mabe NB), I just don't know what is the plan for the feauture, manage packages for Athens and NB in the image or on sthub.
(sorry, headers messed⦠damn you Mail)
On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:32, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:31, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote:
2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: both are integrated into the image. while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case⦠we have a problem for the future :P).
what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?
no idea⦠I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. Igor will know better :)
Esteban
yes, we are slowly moving in the opposite direction of âall maintained in the imageâ, and eventually we plan/dream to have a small kernel and a bunch of configurations to produce Pharo.
now, about NB, we do not have special plans. it is in the image and it will be maintained as part of Pharo.
now, since the most common use of NB is for FFI, and NB is not present in all platforms, we are working (Ronie, in this case) in a âunified FFIâ, which will provide a common abstraction layer for several FFI frameworks (NB, OldFFI, Alienâ¦). With that, we can choose which one of the frameworks we use depending on the situation (but ideally, we will maintain just one, the one that fits better in Pharo). Again⦠this are just ideas for the future :)
Esteban
On 24 Nov 2014, at 23:23, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote:
2014-11-24 20:41 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de <mailto:astares@gmx.de>>: Hi,
were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated or still with an external config and on STHub?
The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day (trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4).
So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK.
But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and more packages using external configs again.
What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get synchronized? Or will it stay internal only?
Thx T.
I was about to ask the same question for Athens, the packages in pharo4 and sthub diverge. I can merge the sthub and pharo4 version for Athens (and mabe NB), I just don't know what is the plan for the feauture, manage packages for Athens and NB in the image or on sthub.
On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:39, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: both are integrated into the image. while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case⦠we have a problem for the future :P).
what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?
no idea⦠I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. Igor will know better :) Esteban
yes, we are slowly moving in the opposite direction of âall maintained in the imageâ, and eventually we plan/dream to have a small kernel and a bunch of configurations to produce Pharo.
now, about NB, we do not have special plans. it is in the image and it will be maintained as part of Pharo.
now, since the most common use of NB is for FFI, and NB is not present in all platforms, we are working (Ronie, in this case) in a âunified FFIâ, which will provide a common abstraction layer for several FFI frameworks (NB, OldFFI, Alienâ¦). With that, we can choose which one of the frameworks we use depending on the situation (but ideally, we will maintain just one, the one that fits better in Pharo). Again⦠this are just ideas for the future :)
Esteban
On 24 Nov 2014, at 23:23, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote:
2014-11-24 20:41 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de <mailto:astares@gmx.de>>: Hi,
were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated or still with an external config and on STHub?
The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day (trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4).
So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK.
But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and more packages using external configs again.
What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get synchronized? Or will it stay internal only?
Thx T.
I was about to ask the same question for Athens, the packages in pharo4 and sthub diverge. I can merge the sthub and pharo4 version for Athens (and mabe NB), I just don't know what is the plan for the feauture, manage packages for Athens and NB in the image or on sthub.
On 26 November 2014 at 08:33, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:39, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
both are integrated into the image. while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case⦠we have a problem for the future :P).
what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?
The process is simple: - Athens has own repository where its sources are maintained and updated etc.. - an updates then can be loaded into Pharo image(s), so it can come with Pharo distribution by default. It is important to keep this project in separate repository, that helps with managing it and producing predictable results.The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake. Doing everything in a monolithic image is a planning mess, and works fine only for bug fixing or small refactorings. Anything which requires sizable planning and designing, should have own line of development and maintenance, like that there's a clear separation of the responsibility for maintaining the project in healthy state and less bottlenecks. no idea⦠I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area.
Igor will know better :)
Esteban
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
2014-11-26 14:54 GMT+01:00 Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com>:
On 26 November 2014 at 08:33, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:39, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
both are integrated into the image. while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case⦠we have a problem for the future :P).
what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?
The process is simple: - Athens has own repository where its sources are maintained and updated etc.. - an updates then can be loaded into Pharo image(s), so it can come with Pharo distribution by default.
It is important to keep this project in separate repository, that helps with managing it and producing predictable results.
Ah, that is what I wanted to know.
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.
That's how I've done it recently. I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.
Doing everything in a monolithic image is a planning mess, and works fine only for bug fixing or small refactorings.
Anything which requires sizable planning and designing, should have own line of development and maintenance, like that there's a clear separation of the responsibility for maintaining the project in healthy state and less bottlenecks.
no idea⦠I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area.
Igor will know better :)
Esteban
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
On 26 Nov 2014, at 15:08, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-11-26 14:54 GMT+01:00 Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com <mailto:siguctua@gmail.com>>:
On 26 November 2014 at 08:33, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 25 Nov 2014, at 23:39, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote:
2014-11-24 23:34 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: both are integrated into the image. while NB has been maintained directly, athens should still be loadable (if not the case⦠we have a problem for the future :P).
what does that mean for athens, yes unload and loadable from the image or loadable from the sthub repository?
The process is simple: - Athens has own repository where its sources are maintained and updated etc.. - an updates then can be loaded into Pharo image(s), so it can come with Pharo distribution by default.
It is important to keep this project in separate repository, that helps with managing it and producing predictable results.
Ah, that is what I wanted to know.
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.
That's how I've done it recently.
I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.
Yes, that would be nice. For your fixes I waited actually for Igor to react. (I think I even did send him a mail after waiting for some weeks). After that, I decided it was better to add the changes to Pharo than to risk loosing you as a contributor because we ignore your contributions. Marcus
Yes, that would be nice.
For your fixes I waited actually for Igor to react. (I think I even did send him a mail after waiting for some weeks). After that, I decided it was better to add the changes to Pharo than to risk loosing you as a contributor because we ignore your contributions.
+1
Marcus
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.
That's how I've done it recently.
I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.
Thanks for doing that!
Doing everything in a monolithic image is a planning mess, and works fine only for bug fixing or small refactorings.
Anything which requires sizable planning and designing, should have own line of development and maintenance, like that there's a clear separation of the responsibility for maintaining the project in healthy state and less bottlenecks.
no idea⦠I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that area. Igor will know better :)
Esteban
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
2014-11-27 10:02 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.
That's how I've done it recently.
I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.
Thanks for doing that!
Hm, actually I don't know how to do that :) Whats the common way for merging this changes back? Do I just open Monticello Browser, select the Athens packages (Athens-Balloon/Athens-Cairo/Athens-Core ..) and just save them in the 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Athens/main' - repository ?
Doing everything in a monolithic image is a planning mess, and works fine only for bug fixing or small refactorings.
Anything which requires sizable planning and designing, should have own line of development and maintenance, like that there's a clear separation of the responsibility for maintaining the project in healthy state and less bottlenecks.
no idea⦠I guess is the same case, but I have no control over that
area. Igor will know better :)
Esteban
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
On 29 Nov 2014, at 07:53, Ben Coman <btc@openInWorld.com> wrote:
2014-11-27 10:02 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo@free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>:
The fact that Athens are part of Pharo distribution don't means, that its repository should be abandoned and all updates should come directly to Pharo. That would be a huge mistake.
That's how I've done it recently.
I'll merge the changes from pharo -> athens repository.
Thanks for doing that!
Hm, actually I don't know how to do that :) Whats the common way for merging this changes back? Do I just open Monticello Browser, select the Athens packages (Athens-Balloon/Athens-Cairo/Athens-Core ..) and just save them in the 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Athens/main <http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Athens/main>' - repository ?
I would say -> merge with the repo (if there are changes) -> commit back to the repo -> sync with maintainer -> Maintainer should give OK and make a new Config Then we should make sure to have the same in the image as in the repo. Marcus
participants (5)
-
Esteban Lorenzano -
Igor Stasenko -
Marcus Denker -
Nicolai Hess -
stepharo