[Pharo-project] Removing ReferenceStream
Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive". So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported.. So, can I remove ReferenceStream? thanks -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
AFAIK there is common consensus that some things will be removed from 2.0 without deprecation. When we offer more than adequate replacement for ReferenceStream in form of Fuel, I think that we can remove it without doubts. -- Pavel On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive".
So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported..
So, can I remove ReferenceStream?
thanks
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
+1 On 05/06/2012, at 22:18, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive".
So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported..
So, can I remove ReferenceStream?
thanks
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive".
So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported..
So, can I remove ReferenceStream?
I vote yes. If anyone needs migrate data between pharo 1.x and 2.0, and he can use fuel, then there is no problem at all. But we should document this in a wiki page and say: To migrate apps from pharo 1.x to 2.0 - if you use reference stream, you should use fuel. You can migrate the data with blablabla... - .... There is a saying in spanish "Cuentas claras mantienen la amistad" that I think can be translated in english as "Good fences make good neighbors"...
thanks
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
On Jun 5, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive".
So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported..
So, can I remove ReferenceStream?
I think yes. Fuel is very easy to use, so clients can be changed to use Fuel quite quickly. And migration can be done by loading fuel in 1.4 (or 1.3). Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>wrote:
On Jun 5, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive".
So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported..
So, can I remove ReferenceStream?
I think yes.
Fuel is very easy to use, so clients can be changed to use Fuel quite quickly. And migration can be done by loading fuel in 1.4 (or 1.3).
Or in 1.2 or in 1.1.
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Ok: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6037 On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>wrote:
On Jun 5, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive".
So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported..
So, can I remove ReferenceStream?
I think yes.
Fuel is very easy to use, so clients can be changed to use Fuel quite quickly. And migration can be done by loading fuel in 1.4 (or 1.3).
Or in 1.2 or in 1.1.
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Hi, I think is hard to document how to migrate everything from 1.1 to 2.0. What is possible and we should do is to document in the wiki the migration path from 1.4 to 2.0, in those cases in which an adjustment is needed (like this one). I'm not proposing to re-write documentation there, just to keep a single list of: "we are loosing compatibility with x, please use y instead" (and a link to the available documentation, if needed). to "take the bull by the horns", I already started the page: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/MIgrationFrom14To20 we should use it and point to it somewhere in the site, to allow developers to find it (this list could be merged with http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharo2, I don't know). Esteban On Jun 6, 2012, at 10:22 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Ok: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6037
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Jun 5, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive".
So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported..
So, can I remove ReferenceStream?
I think yes.
Fuel is very easy to use, so clients can be changed to use Fuel quite quickly. And migration can be done by loading fuel in 1.4 (or 1.3).
Or in 1.2 or in 1.1.
Marcus
-- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Yes excellent idea we should update the log regularly. Stef
to "take the bull by the horns", I already started the page: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/MIgrationFrom14To20
we should use it and point to it somewhere in the site, to allow developers to find it (this list could be merged with http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharo2, I don't know).
participants (6)
-
Esteban Lorenzano -
Guillermo Polito -
Marcus Denker -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Pavel Krivanek -
Stéphane Ducasse