Re: [Pharo-dev] pane for repositories in the Configuration Browser
Hmm. It solves the problem I definitely don't have with the configuration browser. It is supposed to be helpful and provide simple and working configurations. That doesn't work as the configurations are not composable (loading magritte and then loading seaside misses magritte-seaside). As a new user, I don't want to know about multiple locations for repositories. If I have to, I don't want them to take up half the size of the window, and simultaneously I don't want them hidden behind a context menu. Why not use a simple drop-down select for the five repositories? And don't use the full url as a selection name as that doesn't fit. Just add the full url on hover Can we target the configuration browser please? So no possibility to add your own metarepo, just a tool that helps people getting started? Stephan
I agree with both of you. I think what the Configuration Browser needs is a description pane that first of all gives information about the project and possible sources of documentaion and also has some advanced info for example its main repo, OS supported and Pharo versions supported. Obviously such pane could be made collapsable but on the other hand I find it very hard to believe that a new user wont need at least some basic info about the packages he tried to install. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
Hmm. It solves the problem I definitely don't have with the configuration browser. It is supposed to be helpful and provide simple and working configurations. That doesn't work as the configurations are not composable (loading magritte and then loading seaside misses magritte-seaside).
As a new user, I don't want to know about multiple locations for repositories. If I have to, I don't want them to take up half the size of the window, and simultaneously I don't want them hidden behind a context menu. Why not use a simple drop-down select for the five repositories? And don't use the full url as a selection name as that doesn't fit. Just add the full url on hover
Can we target the configuration browser please? So no possibility to add your own metarepo, just a tool that helps people getting started?
Stephan
On 05 Nov 2014, at 11:46, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
Hmm. It solves the problem I definitely don't have with the configuration browser. It is supposed to be helpful and provide simple and working configurations. That doesn't work as the configurations are not composable (loading magritte and then loading seaside misses magritte-seaside).
That is a totally different problem, unrelated to the subject. It seems legit, but even more a problem of Metacello than of the Configuration Browser. Are groups advertised/available in a config ? How would you even implement what you want ?
As a new user, I don't want to know about multiple locations for repositories. If I have to, I don't want them to take up half the size of the window, and simultaneously I don't want them hidden behind a context menu. Why not use a simple drop-down select for the five repositories?
That is a good alternative.
And don't use the full url as a selection name as that doesn't fit. Just add the full url on hover
Yes, good idea.
Can we target the configuration browser please? So no possibility to add your own metarepo, just a tool that helps people getting started?
Stephan
For me, it solves the limited visibility. The other aspects are worth discussing too. Sven
Hi, when I initially created the config browser my idead was that (especially for newbees) the packages/frameworks/projects are easy to load. Key to success is easy access to things. One should not have to know or fight with Metacello, Gofer, ... in the first place. Things should just work ("click, load and run"). Advances users know about the script way of loading things or build configs with dependencies on their own. So in the beginning there was only ONE repo in the Config browser that should include the configs that are known to run in a specific Pharo version (therefore MetaRepoForPharo20, MetaRepoForPharo30, MetaRepoForPharo40, ... After that we found out it will be usefull to load also from older repos (like loading from MetaRepoForPharo30 when in Pharo 4) or also allow custom repos. Thats why I fixed it after the request from Sean: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13941 Now people seem to use this as well and would like to make the different repos more transparent. No problem with the additional pane. @Luc: I like your extension as with the config browser now people can see the other repos, load from them when in newer Pharo versions or use custom ones. But a newbee might easily be confused which repo to use and may end up in non-working loading. This is the opposite to what was the original intention of the tool. So we need to support both cases, but IMHO should keep things initially simple (according to the original idea). So I would like to see: - add a toggle to the menu ("Show repositories") to switch the preference also in config browser - hide the pane by default This way a newbee can just load without getting into (for him complicated) questions like "from what repo", "why is it not working" (when loading from the wrong), ... and an advanced user can set the preference according to his need as he might have checked the menus or preferences. Bye T.
2014-11-05 13:05 GMT+01:00 Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de>:
Hi,
when I initially created the config browser my idead was that (especially for newbees) the packages/frameworks/projects are easy to load. Key to success is easy access to things.
One should not have to know or fight with Metacello, Gofer, ... in the first place. Things should just work ("click, load and run"). Advances users know about the script way of loading things or build configs with dependencies on their own.
So in the beginning there was only ONE repo in the Config browser that should include the configs that are known to run in a specific Pharo version (therefore MetaRepoForPharo20, MetaRepoForPharo30, MetaRepoForPharo40, ...
After that we found out it will be usefull to load also from older repos (like loading from MetaRepoForPharo30 when in Pharo 4) or also allow custom repos. Thats why I fixed it after the request from Sean: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13941
Now people seem to use this as well and would like to make the different repos more transparent. No problem with the additional pane.
@Luc: I like your extension as with the config browser now people can see the other repos, load from them when in newer Pharo versions or use custom ones.
But a newbee might easily be confused which repo to use and may end up in non-working loading. This is the opposite to what was the original intention of the tool.
I agree with you and Stephan there. It must be simple for newcomers. That is why I added the Settings and perhaps the default should be to hide the repositories list hence it keeps the actual Configuration Browser. I just did this extension yesterday evenning because I discovered the "hidden" feature of multiple repositories by inadvertence ;-)
So we need to support both cases, but IMHO should keep things initially simple (according to the original idea). So I would like to see:
- add a toggle to the menu ("Show repositories") to switch the preference also in config browser - hide the pane by default
This way a newbee can just load without getting into (for him complicated) questions like "from what repo", "why is it not working" (when loading from the wrong), ... and an advanced user can set the preference according to his need as he might have checked the menus or preferences.
+1 Luc
Bye T.
Luc Fabresse wrote
I agree with you and Stephan there. It must be simple for newcomers.
I agree also. And, I think forbidding adding repositories is a bit Draconian. Keeping the feature "hidden" in the context menu seems like a reasonable compromise. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/pane-for-repositories-in-the-Configuration-Browser-tp4... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (6)
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kilon alios -
Luc Fabresse -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stephan Eggermont -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Torsten Bergmann