[Pharo-project] Morphic on HTML+CSS
Hi all, In light of recent Microsoft surprising U-turn announcement [1] that in Windows 8 it swithes to HTML5 (HTML5+CSS+JavaScript) instead of .NET+WPF and Silverlight for desktop app development it is IMO a right time to think about: 1. is this a clear signal that HTML5 for ALL apps, both desktop and the web is inevitable? 2. is this a clear signal that we need to rebuild Morphic on top of HTML+CSS, to leverage all Morphic advantages and come back to bleeding edge again? I think yes. What Squeak/Pharo/Cuis GUI masters say? Best regards Janko [1] http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves... -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Janko Mivšek wrote:
1. is this a clear signal that HTML5 for ALL apps, both desktop and the web is inevitable? 2. is this a clear signal that we need to rebuild Morphic on top of HTML+CSS, to leverage all Morphic advantages and come back to bleeding edge again?
I really like the idea Janko and have been thinking for some time that moving to a fully browser based IDE would be great for Smalltalk. I am just not sure there are a lot of people with enough free time to tackle this task though .... unless someone like Instantiations, Gemstone or Cincom throws some resources at is and is willing to share with the Smalltalk community :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-on-HTML-CSS-tp3596306p3600455.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Geert, I am currently working on a browser-based IDE for Pharo and GemStone (should work in any other dialect that supports Seaside ... with a little effort). It is called 'tODE -the Object (centric) Development Environment'. I expect to eventually replace the OmniBrowser-based Gemtools with tODE ... You can get a picture of what tODE looks like (in Chrome) attached to the email message[1]. I am using Seaside mainly to generate the javascript and provide the necessary callback infrastructure ... I am not trying to duplicate the window-based development environment we are all familiar with. In a web-browser, it is not natural to be opening and closing tens of windows, so I have taken a very different tack ... all of the action for tODE takes place in a single web-browser tab ... tODE has it's own navigation scheme (Smalltalk expressions), links and tabs ... I'm getting relatively close to the point where I can produce a video showing tODE in action... [1] http://forum.world.st/usability-of-Pharo-and-Squeak-tp3562378p3568859.html ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Geert Claes" <geert.wl.claes@gmail.com> | To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 1:20:50 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Morphic on HTML+CSS | | | Janko Mivšek wrote: | > | > 1. is this a clear signal that HTML5 for ALL apps, both desktop and | > the | > web is inevitable? | > 2. is this a clear signal that we need to rebuild Morphic on top of | > HTML+CSS, to leverage all Morphic advantages and come back to | > bleeding | > edge again? | > | | I really like the idea Janko and have been thinking for some time | that | moving to a fully browser based IDE would be great for Smalltalk. I | am just | not sure there are a lot of people with enough free time to tackle | this task | though .... unless someone like Instantiations, Gemstone or Cincom | throws | some resources at is and is willing to share with the Smalltalk | community :) | | | -- | View this message in context: | http://forum.world.st/Morphic-on-HTML-CSS-tp3596306p3600455.html | Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. | |
Dale Henrichs wrote:
I am currently working on a browser-based IDE for Pharo and GemStone (should work in any other dialect that supports Seaside ... with a little effort). It is called 'tODE -the Object (centric) Development Environment'. I expect to eventually replace the OmniBrowser-based Gemtools with tODE ...
Yep, I noticed that a couple of weeks ago Dale Henrichs wrote:
I am not trying to duplicate the window-based development environment we are all familiar with. In a web-browser, it is not natural to be opening and closing tens of windows, so I have taken a very different tack ... all of the action for tODE takes place in a single web-browser tab ... tODE has it's own navigation scheme (Smalltalk expressions), links and tabs ...
I completely agree about not duplicating the current IDE, although I reckon that having multiple browser tabs is the way to go. An easy to use RAD GUI designer (taking a leaf out of the prototyping tools books) is what would really make the browser based IDE shine. Anyhow, looking forward to see it in action. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-on-HTML-CSS-tp3596306p3601682.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Looks good Dale! Go go go! Alexandre On 15 Jun 2011, at 16:41, Dale Henrichs wrote:
Geert,
I am currently working on a browser-based IDE for Pharo and GemStone (should work in any other dialect that supports Seaside ... with a little effort). It is called 'tODE -the Object (centric) Development Environment'. I expect to eventually replace the OmniBrowser-based Gemtools with tODE ...
You can get a picture of what tODE looks like (in Chrome) attached to the email message[1].
I am using Seaside mainly to generate the javascript and provide the necessary callback infrastructure ...
I am not trying to duplicate the window-based development environment we are all familiar with. In a web-browser, it is not natural to be opening and closing tens of windows, so I have taken a very different tack ... all of the action for tODE takes place in a single web-browser tab ... tODE has it's own navigation scheme (Smalltalk expressions), links and tabs ...
I'm getting relatively close to the point where I can produce a video showing tODE in action...
[1] http://forum.world.st/usability-of-Pharo-and-Squeak-tp3562378p3568859.html
----- Original Message ----- | From: "Geert Claes" <geert.wl.claes@gmail.com> | To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 1:20:50 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Morphic on HTML+CSS | | | Janko Mivšek wrote: | > | > 1. is this a clear signal that HTML5 for ALL apps, both desktop and | > the | > web is inevitable? | > 2. is this a clear signal that we need to rebuild Morphic on top of | > HTML+CSS, to leverage all Morphic advantages and come back to | > bleeding | > edge again? | > | | I really like the idea Janko and have been thinking for some time | that | moving to a fully browser based IDE would be great for Smalltalk. I | am just | not sure there are a lot of people with enough free time to tackle | this task | though .... unless someone like Instantiations, Gemstone or Cincom | throws | some resources at is and is willing to share with the Smalltalk | community :) | | | -- | View this message in context: | http://forum.world.st/Morphic-on-HTML-CSS-tp3596306p3600455.html | Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. | |
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On 06/15/2011 10:20 PM, Geert Claes wrote:
Janko Mivšek wrote:
1. is this a clear signal that HTML5 for ALL apps, both desktop and the web is inevitable? 2. is this a clear signal that we need to rebuild Morphic on top of HTML+CSS, to leverage all Morphic advantages and come back to bleeding edge again?
I really like the idea Janko and have been thinking for some time that moving to a fully browser based IDE would be great for Smalltalk.
Sidenote: HP (Palm) now has a full browser IDE for building apps for WebOS - it is called Ares and I think I read it is based on Bespin from Mozilla. So yes, such IDEs are appearing, and not only for "web app development". But I personally would not want my *Smalltalk* IDE like that. :) regards, Göran
participants (5)
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Alexandre Bergel -
Dale Henrichs -
Geert Claes -
Göran Krampe -
Janko Mivšek