[Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect. First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list. My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are "made" with a particular language. The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted" language. Second, I drafted a letter titled: "Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision" and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425 At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk. Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs. He did respond. Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event. Fourth, I have interest & support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly. Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
thanks john! On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:09 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect.
First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list. My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are "made" with a particular language. The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted" language.
Second, I drafted a letter titled: "Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision" and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425
At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk.
Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs. He did respond. Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event.
Fourth, I have interest & support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly.
Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it.
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
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This morning there was a huge rumbling of email in my in-box. The result accumulated in Wired's nicely written article which you can find at http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/apple-scratch-app At this time I have no further information to offer and I'm awaiting further communication from Apple. Alan Kay did contribute to the article, I did not, other than various quotes Wired lifted from my letter in the Apple Developer Forums. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
Obviously I'm collecting media links on the issue http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Scratch.html -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
Morning, I've posted the letter I had posted to the Apple developer forums and sent to Steve Jobs at http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Interpreters.html I'll suggest there was some lifting of concept and quotes by Wired from letter. As of this morning I have no further news, I have heard thru various sources that the issue is not dead yet, So I wait. On 2010-04-16, at 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:
Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
Good! John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone. STef On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:12 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
Morning, I've posted the letter I had posted to the Apple developer forums and sent to Steve Jobs at
http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Interpreters.html
I'll suggest there was some lifting of concept and quotes by Wired from letter.
As of this morning I have no further news, I have heard thru various sources that the issue is not dead yet,
So I wait.
On 2010-04-16, at 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:
Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
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On 2010-04-21, at 1:13 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
Good! John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone.
STef
Yes, I did conduct a magazine interview today where I ensured I did mentioned that ESUG funding was instrumental in getting the foundations of Scratch (aka Squeak VM) onto the iPhone, otherwise it would never have happened. As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not allowed, but in the future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:26 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
On 2010-04-21, at 1:13 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
Good! John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone.
STef
Yes, I did conduct a magazine interview today where I ensured I did mentioned that ESUG funding was instrumental in getting the foundations of Scratch (aka Squeak VM) onto the iPhone, otherwise it would never have happened.
Excellent!
As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not allowed, but in the future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application.
Great! But nothing really new on that front. Stef
As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not = allowed, but in the=20 future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even = if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application.
so... I want to be clear... that means "Deimos" (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P) Cheers, Esteban
On Apr 22, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not = allowed, but in the=20 future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even = if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application.
so... I want to be clear... that means "Deimos" (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P)
indeed. I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press. Stef
Here's a nice apple skull: http://www.bluecollardistro.com/indietech/images/int-ss-001-01.jpg You can buy a T-shirt too ;-) - on http://www.bluecollardistro.com/indietech/product_info.php?products_id=1719&... On Apr 22, 2010, at 15:22 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
On Apr 22, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not = allowed, but in the=20 future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even = if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application.
so... I want to be clear... that means "Deimos" (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P)
indeed.
I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press.
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Excellent! Stef On Apr 22, 2010, at 3:44 PM, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote:
Here's a nice apple skull:
http://www.bluecollardistro.com/indietech/images/int-ss-001-01.jpg
You can buy a T-shirt too ;-)
- on
http://www.bluecollardistro.com/indietech/product_info.php?products_id=1719&...
On Apr 22, 2010, at 15:22 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
On Apr 22, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not = allowed, but in the=20 future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even = if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application.
so... I want to be clear... that means "Deimos" (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P)
indeed.
I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press.
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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On 2010-04-22, at 6:22 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press.
Yes well I don't think that will achieve much. Personally I think that the people here involved in the education & university domains need to write actual paper based letters on their institution's letter head and mail them to the Apple education reps for their countries stating their concern about Apple's legal agreements that appear to lockout the iPad for extraordinary use in the computer science curriculum. This involves passionately arguing for the ability to program, or teach in something other than C, C++, Obj-C or Javascript, I"m sure others are more capable than me in composing that, as a software engineer my words aren't worth much, but I think computer science departments should be voicing their concern on the direction where things appear to be going. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and university and education then we will end up to nothing. zero ok one or two, now individually we can take the responsibility to say what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself. Stef On Apr 22, 2010, at 5:15 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
On 2010-04-22, at 6:22 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press.
Yes well I don't think that will achieve much.
Personally I think that the people here involved in the education & university domains need to write actual paper based letters on their institution's letter head and mail them to the Apple education reps for their countries stating their concern about Apple's legal agreements that appear to lockout the iPad for extraordinary use in the computer science curriculum.
This involves passionately arguing for the ability to program, or teach in something other than C, C++, Obj-C or Javascript, I"m sure others are more capable than me in composing that, as a software engineer my words aren't worth much, but I think computer science departments should be voicing their concern on the direction where things appear to be going.
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
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Although it hurts to admit, I think Stef is downright on his take... OTOH, I feel we lost the bandwagon long time ago when Apple already sent the message by stopping supporting Squeak. So, just to attempt to bring another idea to the debate, I suggest we reason this way: presently this platform is getting a lot of attention and we (lets define our Smalltalk + Scratch interest group here¹) saw some prospects for some uses of it which Apple could not conceive a way of its business model without forbidding it. It is their platform their business model! Is like we are trying again to show how nerdy and rebel we are as were the folks that got the PS to run Linux. . . my 0.019999.... -- [1] In another post I can post my take about dynamic languages in general if interest remains on this subject) Em 22/04/2010 15:43, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr > escreveu: if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and university and education then we will end up to nothing. zero ok one or two, now individually we can take the responsibility to say what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself. Stef On Apr 22, 2010, at 5:15 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
On 2010-04-22, at 6:22 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press.
Yes well I don't think that will achieve much.
Personally I think that the people here involved in the education & university domains need to write actual paper based letters on their institution's letter head and mail them to the Apple education reps for their countries stating their concern about Apple's legal agreements that appear to lockout the iPad for extraordinary use in the computer science curriculum.
This involves passionately arguing for the ability to program, or teach in something other than C, C++, Obj-C or Javascript, I"m sure others are more capable than me in composing that, as a software engineer my words aren't worth much, but I think computer science departments should be voicing their concern on the direction where things appear to be going.
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
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On 2010-04-22, at 11:43 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and university and education then we will end up to nothing. zero ok one or two, now individually we can take the responsibility to say what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself.
Stef
It's not just intersection of Smalltalk, let me ramble, APL, Cobol, Fortran, Lisp, Basic, Lua , Ruby, Perl, Simula, Algol68, PL/I no doubt there are a few more, that is what is at risk. Or do educational institutes only dabble and teach in C++ still? -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
Em 22/04/2010 17:00, John M McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> escreveu:
On 2010-04-22, at 11:43 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and university and education then we will end up to nothing. zero ok one or two, now individually we can take the responsibility to say what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself.
Stef It's not just intersection of Smalltalk, let me ramble, APL, Cobol, Fortran, Lisp, Basic, Lua , Ruby, Perl, Simula, Algol68, PL/I no doubt there are a few more, that is what is at risk. Or do educational institutes only dabble and teach in C++ still?
John, I respect your point but I feel this is stretching into a Crusade! Scratch itself is the point still or is it to be an example of the 'liberty' we would like to have in a Commercial defined and owned by a company platform? If the former, I think the issue could eventually boils down to Apple sponsoring MIT or other institution (ESUG probably would not be interested) in doing the necessary port of Scratch [viewer for iPad] to ObjC or Javascript. I mean, in a nutshell it is the question of the availability of the Scratch application versus a certain investment done to have it in iPad. If the latter, I think we need to find first why we're so certain we (the melting pot community you mention above: from COBOL to Lua) have any "rights" to have our favorite language available or approved by Apple to run in _its_ platform? Notwithstanding the historical tie to an idea of the Dynabook et al., the iPad is an iPad! Are we so sure that iPad would be this so astonishing success in such a way that if Scratch does not come by via an iPad the majority of the teens which are the intended audience of Scratch would become orphaned of using Scratch? Let's ask ourselves, due to principles would we (instead of putting black skulls on our pages) steer away of Apple and stop doing development work for all Apple devices (the only way to have a visible effect), as was for a time a ban from FSF due the Apple's litigation on the 'look and feel' of their apps? I don't think it is reasonable nor expected. . . my 0.19999.... -- Cesar Rabak
On 2010-04-22, at 4:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
so... I want to be clear... that means "Deimos" (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P)
Cheers, Esteban
Well you can read the http://monotouch.net news item and think it over. Novell says: "we have heard little direct feedback from Apple" Ya, been there... Right now C, C++, Obj-C, Javascript are the only allowable languages to code in. Maybe they'll refine it a bit and add assembler, or maybe they will ditch the entire clause. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out. Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue? Phil On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:13 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
Good! John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone.
STef
On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:12 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
Morning, I've posted the letter I had posted to the Apple developer forums and sent to Steve Jobs at
http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Interpreters.html
I'll suggest there was some lifting of concept and quotes by Wired from letter.
As of this morning I have no further news, I have heard thru various sources that the issue is not dead yet,
So I wait.
On 2010-04-16, at 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:
Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app
-- = = = = = = ===================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = = = = =====================================================================
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On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote:
I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out. Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue?
We were waiting to get news from the scratch story. And also I'm not a really good politically correct person to write that so any text to start with would help the board to produce a statement going in that direction. Stef
Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG etc), to stay claim and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to wait a further decision or statement. Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely now time to consider what to do next. So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were itching to do something. At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach the problem in a meaningful manner. Suggestions are welcome. On 2010-04-21, at 1:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote:
I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out. Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue?
Phil
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
John & Stephane, Fair enough and good to know that folks like ESUG will be weighing in. I think you're on the right track re: gathering vocal support from the Scratch community that is constructive rather than bashing Apple, and have mainly been wondering why there wasn't a more concerted push from the Smalltalk and dynamic languages community in general talking about how policies like this would make iPhone OS a non-viable platform for them and push them to invest in alternatives such as Android to the exclusion of iPhone OS, rather than in addition to it. I'm not sure how much additional impact that would have, but the endgame for many tools/languages on iPhone OS doesn't seem to be very far off and I'm not terribly optimistic on how this will be decided. Thanks, Phil On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:48 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG etc), to stay claim and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to wait a further decision or statement.
Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely now time to consider what to do next.
So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were itching to do something.
At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach the problem in a meaningful manner. Suggestions are welcome.
On 2010-04-21, at 1:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote:
I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out. Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue?
Phil
-- = = = = = ====================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = = = ======================================================================
Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any? http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/ Lawson
Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things. The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages. So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet... But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing" Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad. I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad. I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet. On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote:
Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/
Lawson
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
Thanks John and Alan for your efforts. Noury On 11 juin 2010, at 07:43, John M McIntosh wrote:
Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.
The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages.
So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet...
But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing"
Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad.
I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad.
I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet.
On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote:
Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/
Lawson
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
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Thank you Alan&John for your great job ! I will maybe buy an ipad and i would love to do some Squeak/Pharo activities in this platform. On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:43 PM, John M McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> wrote:
Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.
The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages.
So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet...
But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing"
Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad.
I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad.
I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet.
On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote:
Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/
Lawson
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Â Twitter: Â squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. Â http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
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participants (10)
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csrabak＠bol.com.br -
Esteban Lorenzano -
John M McIntosh -
Lawson English -
Noury Bouraqadi -
Oscar Nierstrasz -
Phil (list) -
Serge Stinckwich -
stephane ducasse -
Stéphane Ducasse