[Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing
I would like to get from you why you use Pharo? After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that: Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processesâ¦). Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose. Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force." Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time. Stef
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
I use Pharo because in this World I am God - I can understand and change everything (inside the World). The core is simple. Easy prototyping. It's a place to learn. Nice community. So this is my platform of choice to try things, prototype, create my tools. The Plastic metaphor seems correct. But keep in mind we have to choose programming systems because they solve problems. - what kind(s) of problems Pharo will solve best ? - what kind(s) of users Pharo want to have ? It looks like Pharo has a real place on tablets (Hilaire proves it with DrGeo). Now I'm not sure about "essence of agile". TDD in Pharo does not seem so popular - there's more and more tests, but feedback on testing practices is low. I would like to see timeboxed iterations with goals for Pharo development process - that would be agile and provide a rhythm. Laurent
After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processesâ¦). Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
Stef
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processesâ¦). Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose.
Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from... "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person." http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose. "able to undergo change of form without breaking" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable cheers, -ben
Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time.
Stef
On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processesâ¦). Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose. Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from... "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person." http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it. resilience may be better
Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose. "able to undergo change of form without breaking" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
cheers, -ben
Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time. Stef
On 20 Feb 2012, at 09:24, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processesâ¦). Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose. Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from... "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person." http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
resilience may be better
There once was Resilient embedded Smalltalk by OOVM...
Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose. "able to undergo change of form without breaking" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile is nicer to read) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
cheers, -ben
Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time. Stef
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticity Am 20.02.2012 09:24 schrieb "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
I would like to get from you why you use Pharo?
After thinking a lot about that recently I think that I would like to have something like that:
Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. With Pharo and its ecosystem you can build powerful tools (web application, data management, business processesâ¦). Pharo philosophy is driven by domain driven design. Modeling is agile. Pharo is an executable modeling language. Pharo is not only a language but an infrastructure with powerful tools like Moose. Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
I agree with your usage of "plastic", but there are some unfortunate english slang associations that you might want to stay away from... "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person." http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
resilience may be better
Perhaps "ductile" would suit the same purpose. "able to undergo change of form without breaking" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ductile
There is also "malleable" (but I think the shorter syllables of ductile
is nicer to read)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/malleable
cheers, -ben
Pharo: ease of modeling, essence of agile, close to objects all the time. Stef
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.
Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
"General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person." http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
resilience may be better
Even the connotation of plastic surgery is perfect: don't like the nose of your program? change it! "Plastic" is disputable. That's exactly what you want to be :) Resilience on the other hand sounds a lot like "coping" and "hardiness". Very gray and motivated from the negative. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-do-we-use-Pharo-a-k-a-rethinking-Pharo-marketing-t... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
2c. just for the record: i can't choose. both words fit fine. except that "malleable" is quite often applied to software. so if the idea to emphasize uniqueness of pharo, then i think better to use other word. Anyways, don't put all bets on one horse. IMO no matter what key word will be, if message contents is good :) On 20 February 2012 20:01, Helene Bilbo <thereluctantprogrammer@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.
Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
"General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person." http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
resilience may be better
Even the connotation of plastic surgery is perfect: don't like the nose of your program? change it! "Plastic" is disputable. That's exactly what you want to be :) Resilience on the other hand sounds a lot like "coping" and "hardiness". Very gray and motivated from the negative.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-do-we-use-Pharo-a-k-a-rethinking-Pharo-marketing-t... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Yes, Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious) Adopt the Pharo motto: "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years." Implicit and obvious is the message: It is the special, perfect platform for user to succeed / win 6 month roadmaps then align with this goal . Highlight end of cycle, the special and complete framework, features, that is making it a winnable proposition for the end user. If the end user wins, no matter what we say or do , it will hit big time. If the end users in larger numbers do not, no matter what we say or do it will remain an isolated island. Apple is an aggressive example. Microsoft with windows, VB or even c# or visual studio is an example of hitting the bottom rung of users with all tooling to make them win, irrespective of the intellectual argument for or against lot of what it does. Sudhakar krishnamachari Extn 91-40403012 Cell 9902104814 On Feb 21, 2012, at 1:16 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
2c.
just for the record: i can't choose. both words fit fine. except that "malleable" is quite often applied to software. so if the idea to emphasize uniqueness of pharo, then i think better to use other word. Anyways, don't put all bets on one horse. IMO no matter what key word will be, if message contents is good :)
On 20 February 2012 20:01, Helene Bilbo <thereluctantprogrammer@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications.
Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of force."
"General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person." http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic
Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it.
resilience may be better
Even the connotation of plastic surgery is perfect: don't like the nose of your program? change it! "Plastic" is disputable. That's exactly what you want to be :) Resilience on the other hand sounds a lot like "coping" and "hardiness". Very gray and motivated from the negative.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-do-we-use-Pharo-a-k-a-rethinking-Pharo-marketing-t... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Am 21.02.2012 03:11 schrieb "Krishsmalltalk" < krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com>:
Yes,
Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic
(can be off putting for any environment conscious)
Adopt the Pharo motto:
"Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years."
Implicit and obvious is the message: It is the special, perfect platform
for user to succeed / win
6 month roadmaps then align with this goal . Highlight end of cycle, the
special and complete framework, features, that is making it a winnable proposition for the end user.
If the end user wins, no matter what we say or do , it will hit big time.
If the end users in larger numbers do not, no matter what we say or do it will remain an isolated island. Smalltalk in common, expecially Pharo *is* an isolated island. No touch, no future!
Apple is an aggressive example. Microsoft with windows, VB or even c# or visual studio is an example of hitting the bottom rung of users with all tooling to make them win, irrespective of the intellectual argument for or against lot of what it does.
You forgot Android 4.0 as *the* winning platform on mobiles, in cars (Mercedes, Ford, Nissan have Android built in now!) and TV (all upper class Samsung TV have Android already). Over 700.000 new installations every month!!! Pharo - rather more deinstallations, i fear! See reality! Have fun, Guido Stepken
"fluid"? -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547
Oh, hey! How about "elastic"? That one already has a bit of buzz around it, as in Amazon's "Elastic Compute Cloud" (EC2). -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547
We could get luffy as a symbol :) Stef (ok ok I should to read the manga of my boys but one piece is fun).
Oh, hey! How about "elastic"? That one already has a bit of buzz around it, as in Amazon's "Elastic Compute Cloud" (EC2).
-C
-- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547
participants (9)
-
Ben Coman -
Craig Latta -
Guido Stepken -
Helene Bilbo -
Igor Stasenko -
Krishsmalltalk -
laurent laffont -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Sven Van Caekenberghe