Hi! I have installed NBOpenGL from http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL I have loaded Version 2.0 using the configuration The method NBMacGlAPI>>glApiCall: fnSpec index: fnIndex attributes: attributes context: contextToRetry refers to the class NBCallFailureHandler, which is not existing Apparently NBSTIvarLoader is also missing... I guess ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL is not loading everything... It would be nice to fix this. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On 7 June 2013 21:07, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
I have installed NBOpenGL from http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL I have loaded Version 2.0 using the configuration
The method NBMacGlAPI>>glApiCall: fnSpec index: fnIndex attributes: attributes context: contextToRetry refers to the class NBCallFailureHandler, which is not existing
Apparently NBSTIvarLoader is also missing... I guess ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL is not loading everything... It would be nice to fix this.
just tried in latest 2.0 image. Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606 Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load. (ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld everything loads and works. (it takes 5 minutes to load though... )
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Thank you Igor, This allowed me to successfully load, debug & run SourceCity on an 10.6.8 Mac. Steps taken:
just tried in latest 2.0 image.
Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load.
(ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load
GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld
Load the individual SourceCity packages from smalltalkhub: SourceCity-Core SourceCity-Importer SourceCity-Layout SourceCity-Tools remove display bindRenderBuffers from SourceCityGLVizualisationBuilder>fillRenderingList:pickingMode: SourceCityGLVizualisationRenderer>render see it work: SourceCity exampleRpackage Next step: fix code & configuration Stephan On 7 jun 2013, at 23:34, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 7 June 2013 21:07, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
I have installed NBOpenGL from http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL I have loaded Version 2.0 using the configuration
The method NBMacGlAPI>>glApiCall: fnSpec index: fnIndex attributes: attributes context: contextToRetry refers to the class NBCallFailureHandler, which is not existing
Apparently NBSTIvarLoader is also missing... I guess ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL is not loading everything... It would be nice to fix this.
just tried in latest 2.0 image.
Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load.
(ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load
GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld
everything loads and works. (it takes 5 minutes to load though... )
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
On 8 June 2013 10:29, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
Thank you Igor,
This allowed me to successfully load, debug & run SourceCity on an 10.6.8 Mac.
i just updated the config, to fix an issue when using in 3.0 image, which miss ShortPointArray. (but it is used only by my demo)
Steps taken:
just tried in latest 2.0 image.
Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load.
(ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load
GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld
Load the individual SourceCity packages from smalltalkhub:
SourceCity-Core SourceCity-Importer SourceCity-Layout SourceCity-Tools
remove display bindRenderBuffers from SourceCityGLVizualisationBuilder>fillRenderingList:pickingMode: SourceCityGLVizualisationRenderer>render
see it work: SourceCity exampleRpackage
Next step: fix code & configuration
Stephan
On 7 jun 2013, at 23:34, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 7 June 2013 21:07, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
I have installed NBOpenGL from http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL I have loaded Version 2.0 using the configuration
The method NBMacGlAPI>>glApiCall: fnSpec index: fnIndex attributes: attributes context: contextToRetry refers to the class NBCallFailureHandler, which is not existing
Apparently NBSTIvarLoader is also missing... I guess ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL is not loading everything... It would be nice to fix this.
just tried in latest 2.0 image.
Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load.
(ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load
GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld
everything loads and works. (it takes 5 minutes to load though... )
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
thanks igor :)
Thank you Igor,
This allowed me to successfully load, debug & run SourceCity on an 10.6.8 Mac.
i just updated the config, to fix an issue when using in 3.0 image, which miss ShortPointArray. (but it is used only by my demo)
Yahoo!!! it works on my MacBookAir!!!!! Alexandre On Jun 8, 2013, at 7:16 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 June 2013 10:29, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
Thank you Igor,
This allowed me to successfully load, debug & run SourceCity on an 10.6.8 Mac.
i just updated the config, to fix an issue when using in 3.0 image, which miss ShortPointArray. (but it is used only by my demo)
Steps taken:
just tried in latest 2.0 image.
Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load.
(ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load
GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld
Load the individual SourceCity packages from smalltalkhub:
SourceCity-Core SourceCity-Importer SourceCity-Layout SourceCity-Tools
remove display bindRenderBuffers from SourceCityGLVizualisationBuilder>fillRenderingList:pickingMode: SourceCityGLVizualisationRenderer>render
see it work: SourceCity exampleRpackage
Next step: fix code & configuration
Stephan
On 7 jun 2013, at 23:34, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 7 June 2013 21:07, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
I have installed NBOpenGL from http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL I have loaded Version 2.0 using the configuration
The method NBMacGlAPI>>glApiCall: fnSpec index: fnIndex attributes: attributes context: contextToRetry refers to the class NBCallFailureHandler, which is not existing
Apparently NBSTIvarLoader is also missing... I guess ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL is not loading everything... It would be nice to fix this.
just tried in latest 2.0 image.
Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load.
(ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load
GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld
everything loads and works. (it takes 5 minutes to load though... )
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Well it does not work on my Ubuntu, and I get a strange bug on macos though it works. It certainly a library that needs a lot more testing and I will try to fix the bugs I come across. But if you get any bugs with it , make sure you report them here so we can iron them out. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-OpenGL-NBMacGlAPI-missing-tp4692287p4692497.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Apparently the binding of OpenGL for Linux does not exist as far as we have seen. I have put Ronie in copy since he is very interesting in having this binding working on Linux. Cheers, Alexandre On Jun 9, 2013, at 11:56 AM, kilon <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Well it does not work on my Ubuntu, and I get a strange bug on macos though it works. It certainly a library that needs a lot more testing and I will try to fix the bugs I come across. But if you get any bugs with it , make sure you report them here so we can iron them out.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-OpenGL-NBMacGlAPI-missing-tp4692287p4692497.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On 10 June 2013 02:43, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Apparently the binding of OpenGL for Linux does not exist as far as we have seen. I have put Ronie in copy since he is very interesting in having this binding working on Linux.
Apparently, you have no idea what you talking about. Open browser and look for NBOpenGL-X and NBXLib-Core packages. I have put Javier in CC since he would be very interesting in discovering that things he did does not exist :)
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jun 9, 2013, at 11:56 AM, kilon <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Well it does not work on my Ubuntu, and I get a strange bug on macos though it works. It certainly a library that needs a lot more testing and I will try to fix the bugs I come across. But if you get any bugs with it , make sure you report them here so we can iron them out.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-OpenGL-NBMacGlAPI-missing-tp4692287p4692497.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Apparently, you have no idea what you talking about.
Great communication skills :-)
Open browser and look for NBOpenGL-X and NBXLib-Core packages. I have put Javier in CC since he would be very interesting in discovering that things he did does not exist :)
When I evaluate "NBGLContextDriver allSubclasses" it returns: an OrderedCollection(NBMacGLContextDriver NBWin32GLContextDriver) Nothing wrong in thinking that there is no binding for Linux. When I was trying to make open gl working, I have seen ConfigurationOfNBXLib and the NBXLib* packages. http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL does not say a word what these packages are for. I can imagine NBOpenGL is to interact with OpenGL. Maybe "NB" stands for NativeBoost. But NBXLib no idea. Oh well... Maybe for the X-Server? But is this related to OpenGL? Today I succeeded to make OpenGL running on my machine. Cool stuff! Thanks for this! Cheers, Alexandre
On Jun 9, 2013, at 11:56 AM, kilon <thekilon@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Well it does not work on my Ubuntu, and I get a strange bug on macos though it works. It certainly a library that needs a lot more testing and I will try to fix the bugs I come across. But if you get any bugs with it , make sure you report them here so we can iron them out.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-OpenGL-NBMacGlAPI-missing-tp4692287p4692497.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On 10 June 2013 05:53, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Apparently, you have no idea what you talking about.
Great communication skills :-)
Yes, i felt offended. Because it exists for 2 years for now. And your just saying to people that it doesn't exists, just because you loaded wrong/outdated config. You could just search mailing list (dated back to 2010 when it was first released), before/instead of doing any conclusions. Because if i would miss this mail: you/your student would be just wasting precious time trying to make something which already exists. Now tell me, who should care more about your time, me or yourself?
Open browser and look for NBOpenGL-X and NBXLib-Core packages. I have put Javier in CC since he would be very interesting in discovering that things he did does not exist :)
When I evaluate "NBGLContextDriver allSubclasses" it returns: an OrderedCollection(NBMacGLContextDriver NBWin32GLContextDriver)
Nothing wrong in thinking that there is no binding for Linux.
Look, Alex... by analogy, i can download Squeak 3.9 image and state that Pharo doesn't exists on pharo mailing list... and nothing wrong in thinking that. What version you are using? NBGLContextDriver allSubclasses an OrderedCollection(NBMacGLContextDriver NBWin32GLContextDriver NBGLXContextDriver)
When I was trying to make open gl working, I have seen ConfigurationOfNBXLib and the NBXLib* packages. http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL does not say a word what these packages are for. I can imagine NBOpenGL is to interact with OpenGL. Maybe "NB" stands for NativeBoost. But NBXLib no idea. Oh well... Maybe for the X-Server? But is this related to OpenGL?
Yes it is related. Linux desktop uses X server, to initialize OpenGL context there you must create an X window first. For all 'maybes' , google has an answer: try googling 'opengl linux' click on 1st hit , and read linux section: " Linux Graphics on Linux is almost exclusively implemented using the X windows system. Supporting OpenGL on Linux involves using GLX extensions to the X Server. "
Today I succeeded to make OpenGL running on my machine. Cool stuff! Thanks for this!
Now imagine, that the problems you had to deal with, is a norm in C world for anything: missing dependencies, found it, but it doesn't compiles, compiled but it doesn't works, works but sometimes crashes etc etc.
Cheers, Alexandre
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity. Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge 2013/6/10 Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com>
On 10 June 2013 05:53, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Apparently, you have no idea what you talking about.
Great communication skills :-)
Yes, i felt offended. Because it exists for 2 years for now. And your just saying to people that it doesn't exists, just because you loaded wrong/outdated config. You could just search mailing list (dated back to 2010 when it was first released), before/instead of doing any conclusions. Because if i would miss this mail: you/your student would be just wasting precious time trying to make something which already exists. Now tell me, who should care more about your time, me or yourself?
Open browser and look for NBOpenGL-X and NBXLib-Core packages. I have put Javier in CC since he would be very interesting in discovering that things he did does not exist :)
When I evaluate "NBGLContextDriver allSubclasses" it returns: an OrderedCollection(NBMacGLContextDriver NBWin32GLContextDriver)
Nothing wrong in thinking that there is no binding for Linux.
Look, Alex... by analogy, i can download Squeak 3.9 image and state that Pharo doesn't exists on pharo mailing list... and nothing wrong in thinking that.
What version you are using?
NBGLContextDriver allSubclasses an OrderedCollection(NBMacGLContextDriver NBWin32GLContextDriver NBGLXContextDriver)
When I was trying to make open gl working, I have seen
ConfigurationOfNBXLib and the NBXLib* packages. http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL does not say a word what these packages are for. I can imagine NBOpenGL is to interact with OpenGL. Maybe "NB" stands for NativeBoost. But NBXLib no idea. Oh well... Maybe for the X-Server? But is this related to OpenGL?
Yes it is related. Linux desktop uses X server, to initialize OpenGL context there you must create an X window first.
For all 'maybes' , google has an answer: try googling 'opengl linux' click on 1st hit , and read linux section: " Linux
Graphics on Linux is almost exclusively implemented using the X windows system. Supporting OpenGL on Linux involves using GLX extensions to the X Server. "
Today I succeeded to make OpenGL running on my machine. Cool stuff! Thanks for this!
Now imagine, that the problems you had to deal with, is a norm in C world for anything: missing dependencies, found it, but it doesn't compiles, compiled but it doesn't works, works but sometimes crashes etc etc.
Cheers, Alexandre
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- Best regards, Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/ done 2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards, Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 16:47, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
;) nice
thanks! Stef On Jul 4, 2013, at 5:22 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2013-07-04, at 16:47, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
;) nice
Hi Erwan and all, Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity. We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene. Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal). Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you? Cheers, Alexandre On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
+1 Doru On Jul 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Live like you mean it."
NBXLib means it will be available only for linux ? abergel wrote
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <
douailleerwan@
> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <
camillobruni@
>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <
douailleerwan@
> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <
douaille.erwan@
>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-OpenGL-NBMacGlAPI-missing-tp4692287p4697523.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
NBXLib means it will be available only for linux ?
No idea. Roassal 3d works on Windows and OSX so far. No idea about Linux. Alexandre
abergel wrote
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <
douailleerwan@
> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <
camillobruni@
>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <
douailleerwan@
> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <
douaille.erwan@
>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-OpenGL-NBMacGlAPI-missing-tp4692287p4697523.... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
cool! Now pay attention that if you do not invest in the NBOpenGL layer to understand it and make it better you will get frustrated and igor cannot spend time on it. Stef On Jul 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Yes, we are aware of it. We are very fortunate that Ronie is expert in OpenGl and low level stuff. Improving NBOpenGL will definitely be part of our effort. Alexandre Le 06-07-2013 à 4:59, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> a écrit :
cool!
Now pay attention that if you do not invest in the NBOpenGL layer to understand it and make it better you will get frustrated and igor cannot spend time on it.
Stef
On Jul 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On Jul 6, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Yes, we are aware of it. We are very fortunate that Ronie is expert in OpenGl and low level stuff. Improving NBOpenGL will definitely be part of our effort.
ok because I think that this is important to build a nice model (as athens did it for the 2d) over the C apis of openGL. Did he check lumiere? Stef
Alexandre
Le 06-07-2013 à 4:59, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> a écrit :
cool!
Now pay attention that if you do not invest in the NBOpenGL layer to understand it and make it better you will get frustrated and igor cannot spend time on it.
Stef
On Jul 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
On 6 July 2013 18:04, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Yes, we are aware of it. We are very fortunate that Ronie is expert in OpenGl and low level stuff. Improving NBOpenGL will definitely be part of our effort.
Any help with improving it is welcome. Let me know if you need a commit rights to project repo.
Alexandre
Le 06-07-2013 à 4:59, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> a écrit :
cool!
Now pay attention that if you do not invest in the NBOpenGL layer to understand it and make it better you will get frustrated and igor cannot spend time on it.
Stef
On Jul 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Yes, we are aware of it. We are very fortunate that Ronie is expert in OpenGl and low level stuff. Improving NBOpenGL will definitely be part of our effort.
Any help with improving it is welcome. Let me know if you need a commit rights to project repo.
Thanks! We will need the access, but not right now. We are still learning the system... Alexandre
Le 06-07-2013 à 4:59, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> a écrit :
cool!
Now pay attention that if you do not invest in the NBOpenGL layer to understand it and make it better you will get frustrated and igor cannot spend time on it.
Stef
On Jul 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since (i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
_______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Hi (few days later) 2013/7/4 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>
Hi Erwan and all,
Just to make a few things clear about Roassal 3d vs SourceCity.
There is no vs, i just wanted to know the goal and which difference there is between them. Now let's see how it will grow up, with new 3D stuff ;) We are currently working on Roassal 3d, which intends to be a nice layer at
the top of NBOpenGL and NBXLib to easily create 3d scenes with cubes, lights, camera, interactions, zooming, translucent coloring, clicking/rotating/translating individual elements and so on. Everything that is good for Roassal is equally good for 3D Scene.
Having a city-like visualization will be one of our first objectives since
(i) it is a compelling use of 3D and (ii) it is easy to implement (at least the bases). We started to work on a CityBuilder, to easily create cities from objects and provided metrics. Ideally, it would be great to have SourceCity based on our effort. Not now since we have just started Roassal 3D, but on some point we should merge (this is similar in the 2d World with Mondrian and EyeSee moving from plain Morphic to Roassal).
Our objective is to offer a great 3d framework to make a truly flying SourceCity. Does this make sense to you?
Cheers, Alexandre
On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/SourceCity/
done
2013/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
On 2013-07-04, at 15:35, Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan@gmail.com> wrote:
I updated the ConfigurationOfSourceCity.
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ErwanDouaille' project: 'SourceCity'; configuration; load. ConfigurationOfSourceCity loadBleedingEdge
would it make sense to make a jenkins job for this?
-- Best regards,
Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan@gmail.com>
On 7 June 2013 23:34, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7 June 2013 21:07, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
I have installed NBOpenGL from http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL I have loaded Version 2.0 using the configuration
The method NBMacGlAPI>>glApiCall: fnSpec index: fnIndex attributes: attributes context: contextToRetry refers to the class NBCallFailureHandler, which is not existing
Apparently NBSTIvarLoader is also missing... I guess ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL is not loading everything... It would be nice to fix this.
just tried in latest 2.0 image.
Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load.
(ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load
GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld
everything loads and works. (it takes 5 minutes to load though... )
You can also download an image with preloaded configuration NBOpenGL (https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/NBOpenGL/) from jenkins server.
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
I have downloaded the ready-to-use image from Jenkins and I have an error. I have downloaded an empty 2.0 image and installed NBOpenGL and it works. Strange. Maybe some initialization are made that makes the image not cross-platform? Just suggesting... Thanks Igor! Being able to do some 3d in Pharo is extremely important. Alexandre On Jun 7, 2013, at 2:34 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7 June 2013 21:07, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi!
I have installed NBOpenGL from http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBOpenGL I have loaded Version 2.0 using the configuration
The method NBMacGlAPI>>glApiCall: fnSpec index: fnIndex attributes: attributes context: contextToRetry refers to the class NBCallFailureHandler, which is not existing
Apparently NBSTIvarLoader is also missing... I guess ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL is not loading everything... It would be nice to fix this.
just tried in latest 2.0 image.
Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20606
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'NBOpenGL'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL'; load.
(ConfigurationOfNBOpenGL project version: '2.0') load
GLTTRenderingDemo new openInWorld
everything loads and works. (it takes 5 minutes to load though... )
Cheers, Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On 9 June 2013 20:00, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
I have downloaded the ready-to-use image from Jenkins and I have an error.
what error?
I have downloaded an empty 2.0 image and installed NBOpenGL and it works. Strange. Maybe some initialization are made that makes the image not cross-platform? Just suggesting...
Just tried latest build: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/NBOpenGL/48/ both 2.0 and 3.0 images work without any errors. (just don't run image without .sources file, because NB is sensitive to that)
Thanks Igor! Being able to do some 3d in Pharo is extremely important.
I like that people trying to use things i made. Concerning NBOpenGL, i repeating it again: this is not end-user application, nor a 'framework' ready to use. It is a pure bindings to OpenGL with some little code i made to make own demo. And even if demo doesn't runs, it doesn't means that whole bindings non-functional. That means, to make things work for real, you have to make your hands dirty. The bindings will stay as basic as it is, because it is 99.9% automatically generated code, from OpenGL specs. So, for making real application, i would really discourage you from using context initialization code which is there, but instead write own, because the one which is there has many hardcoded things and subject to changes.
Alexandre
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
participants (8)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Camillo Bruni -
Erwan Douaille -
Igor Stasenko -
kilon -
Stephan Eggermont -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Tudor Girba