[Pharo-project] happy new year plus cogdroid news
Hi, Alain Rastoul wrote:
I also wanted to mention that I started the first day of this year trying Pharo on an android tablet (sony) with my develoment image (Pharo 1.3 with lot of stuff loaded : seaside, glorp, dbx, moose fuel and more) and it was really nice ...
Thanks Alain for trying it out. More user experience means better feedback for further code improvement.
- keyboard improvements : no way to get alt or ctl key working so far
Some code for keyboard support has been written since, but maybe it was not included in the pre-generated apks. Once I add more features, I'll release another apk. And sources (on gitorious) are always there for those wanting to mess with Android build tools ;)
- new theme for tablet (bigger fonts, bigger scrollbars etc) (I started to look at this)
Yes, this would be nice to have. And take a look at Honeycomb/ICS: maybe some ideas may be learned from their GUIs. The new trend seems to be to expose additional controls somewhere on the screen once the context for them is right * (e. g. when a downloaded file is selected by touching, icons to delete or share it appear somewhere). Also see the new gmail web interface.
- new smalltalk tools : browser, finder inspector (I will try a small Glamourous browser )
It would be nice if a smaller base Pharo image could be built such way, so it could be embedded with VM and distributed together.
- reduce cpu usage (suspend/awake pharo process ? )
I think Android takes care of it itself: once an application is invisible it is suspended automatically. Or did you notice any performance degradation?
- interface to android content providers (audio, video, calendar data etc)
Working on it ;) In fact, there is a (partial) interface to the intent system, so a home screen shortcuts can be added to start CogDroid with given image and startup arguments. Reading from Android clipboard has been committed to the HEAD (but there is no support via context menu yet). Thanks again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ * That is, when e. g. a text edit box is active, items of the context menu appear somewhere on screen. Maybe halos could be revived with this new meaning? -- Dimitry Golubovsky Anywhere on the Web
Thanks dimity what you are doing is cool. Marcus we should buy an android device or get one: Olivier has one I think.
- keyboard improvements : no way to get alt or ctl key working so far
Some code for keyboard support has been written since, but maybe it was not included in the pre-generated apks. Once I add more features, I'll release another apk. And sources (on gitorious) are always there for those wanting to mess with Android build tools ;)
- new theme for tablet (bigger fonts, bigger scrollbars etc) (I started to look at this)
Yes, this would be nice to have. And take a look at Honeycomb/ICS: maybe some ideas may be learned from their GUIs. The new trend seems to be to expose additional controls somewhere on the screen once the context for them is right * (e. g. when a downloaded file is selected by touching, icons to delete or share it appear somewhere). Also see the new gmail web interface.
- new smalltalk tools : browser, finder inspector (I will try a small Glamourous browser )
It would be nice if a smaller base Pharo image could be built such way, so it could be embedded with VM and distributed together.
yes we are working slowly but steadily on that. Did you try the pavel image?
- reduce cpu usage (suspend/awake pharo process ? )
I think Android takes care of it itself: once an application is invisible it is suspended automatically. Or did you notice any performance degradation?
- interface to android content providers (audio, video, calendar data etc)
Working on it ;) In fact, there is a (partial) interface to the intent system, so a home screen shortcuts can be added to start CogDroid with given image and startup arguments. Reading from Android clipboard has been committed to the HEAD (but there is no support via context menu yet).
Thanks again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ * That is, when e. g. a text edit box is active, items of the context menu appear somewhere on screen. Maybe halos could be revived with this new meaning?
-- Dimitry Golubovsky
Anywhere on the Web
Does an Archos 43 count as an Android device? I bought it with plans that fell flat (the target moved, and the OS was a little disappointing). That said, I have it and can help with testing. I do not have a data plan for it, so my default usage is to copy packages to it via USB. It is hard to imagine developing on it, but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised, and it would be nice to be able to deploy Pharo apps on hand-held devices. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 2:49 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] happy new year plus cogdroid news Thanks dimity what you are doing is cool. Marcus we should buy an android device or get one: Olivier has one I think.
- keyboard improvements : no way to get alt or ctl key working so far
Some code for keyboard support has been written since, but maybe it was not included in the pre-generated apks. Once I add more features, I'll release another apk. And sources (on gitorious) are always there for those wanting to mess with Android build tools ;)
- new theme for tablet (bigger fonts, bigger scrollbars etc) (I started to look at this)
Yes, this would be nice to have. And take a look at Honeycomb/ICS: maybe some ideas may be learned from their GUIs. The new trend seems to be to expose additional controls somewhere on the screen once the context for them is right * (e. g. when a downloaded file is selected by touching, icons to delete or share it appear somewhere). Also see the new gmail web interface.
- new smalltalk tools : browser, finder inspector (I will try a small Glamourous browser )
It would be nice if a smaller base Pharo image could be built such way, so it could be embedded with VM and distributed together.
yes we are working slowly but steadily on that. Did you try the pavel image?
- reduce cpu usage (suspend/awake pharo process ? )
I think Android takes care of it itself: once an application is invisible it is suspended automatically. Or did you notice any performance degradation?
- interface to android content providers (audio, video, calendar data etc)
Working on it ;) In fact, there is a (partial) interface to the intent system, so a home screen shortcuts can be added to start CogDroid with given image and startup arguments. Reading from Android clipboard has been committed to the HEAD (but there is no support via context menu yet).
Thanks again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ * That is, when e. g. a text edit box is active, items of the context menu appear somewhere on screen. Maybe halos could be revived with this new meaning?
-- Dimitry Golubovsky
Anywhere on the Web
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Thanks dimity what you are doing is cool. Marcus we should buy an android device or get one: Olivier has one I think.
Smalltalk on Android is going to be fantastic - and possibly a killer app. Which device will you get? In theory it wouldn't matter but in practice it might. I have been considering getting an Android phone and my choice may be influenced by yours. I might even consider donating some small $ amount if the chosen phone aligns with my interests. Some random thoughts (which ended up with a lot of links, so pick and choose your fancy)... Over christmas the "Samsung Galaxy S II" [1] appears to have been popular with work colleagues here in Western Australia. Consider getting a Jenkins build going with an Android emulator. [2] Consider basing first efforts on top of CyanogenMod [3] - which may be attractive to early adopters to expand the compatibility base [3a] by minimising to difference in manufacturer stack customisations. I personally would use CyanogenMod in any case this to increase performance by eliminating carrier installed bloatware and spyware like Carrier IQ [3b]. Have you seen the Kickstarter funding site [4] [4a] ? Some examples [4b] [4c]. [1] http://www.digitaltrends.com/cell-phone-reviews/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-att-revi... [2] https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Android+Emulator+Plugin [3] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ [3a] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices [3b] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/12/carrier-iq-architecture [4] http://www.kickstarter.com/start [4a] http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#WhatIsKick [4b] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1541803748/punk-mathematics?play=1&ref=s... [4c] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992078142/building-the-open-source-buss... (sorry for the many links) cheers, Ben
Hi! With Android 4.0 the complete design has changed a lot. Icons have become scalable, have direct path to different service daemons, written in C++, Java, Linux increasingly becomes an "event machine" reacting on streams coming over BlueTooth, Wifi, Wimax, USBGPS, GSM, SMS, UMTS, HSPA+, LTE, informing apps, starting processes. A few thousand man-years have been invested by Google already, no chance *ever* for any team to keep up with. Android 4.0 is a free advertising platform on handy. I am using 4.0.x on Nexus for a few days now and am really surprised. I only get AD popups fullscreen from the OS (not within the browser) what i have been searching for on different platforms in the browser or having discussed via mail, twitter, facebook ... Google seems to collect information directly from my virtual keyboard (i have agreed to this explicitly, so please no paranoia!). Times have changed. You are no longer free to choose your programming language. Have fun, Guido Stepken Am 06.01.2012 06:40 schrieb "Ben Coman" <btc@openinworld.com>:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Thanks dimity what you are doing is cool. Marcus we should buy an android device or get one: Olivier has one I think.
Smalltalk on Android is going to be fantastic - and possibly a killer app. Which device will you get? In theory it wouldn't matter but in practice it might. I have been considering getting an Android phone and my choice may be influenced by yours. I might even consider donating some small $ amount if the chosen phone aligns with my interests. Some random thoughts (which ended up with a lot of links, so pick and choose your fancy)...
Over christmas the "Samsung Galaxy S II" [1] appears to have been popular with work colleagues here in Western Australia. Consider getting a Jenkins build going with an Android emulator. [2]
Consider basing first efforts on top of CyanogenMod [3] - which may be attractive to early adopters to expand the compatibility base [3a] by minimising to difference in manufacturer stack customisations. I personally would use CyanogenMod in any case this to increase performance by eliminating carrier installed bloatware and spyware like Carrier IQ [3b].
Have you seen the Kickstarter funding site [4] [4a] ? Some examples [4b] [4c]. [1] http://www.digitaltrends.com/**cell-phone-reviews/samsung-** galaxy-s-ii-att-review/<http://www.digitaltrends.com/cell-phone-reviews/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-att-revi...> [2] https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/**display/JENKINS/Android+** Emulator+Plugin<https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Android+Emulator+Plugin> [3] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ [3a] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/**devices<http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices> [3b] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/**2011/12/carrier-iq-**architecture<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/12/carrier-iq-architecture> [4] http://www.kickstarter.com/**start <http://www.kickstarter.com/start> [4a] http://www.kickstarter.com/**help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#** WhatIsKick<http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#WhatIsKick> [4b] http://www.kickstarter.com/**projects/1541803748/punk-** mathematics?play=1&ref=search<http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1541803748/punk-mathematics?play=1&ref=s...> [4c] http://www.kickstarter.com/**projects/1992078142/building-** the-open-source-bussard-**fusion-reactor?ref=live<http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992078142/building-the-open-source-buss...>
(sorry for the many links) cheers, Ben
Hi Guido, Sure, nobody will redevelop the google stack or APIs, just interface with it. The Pharo image have an event mechanism, and IMHO it should be possible to make some interface to Andoid APIs. If i'm correct the Nexus is a phone, not a tablet ? Alain "Guido Stepken" <gstepken@googlemail.com> a écrit dans le message de news: CANXOX8-4-XPfvjChy8VR9Q_kO7MGeZ7rO4YzRAna28a6iZR3EA@mail.gmail.com... Hi! With Android 4.0 the complete design has changed a lot. Icons have become scalable, have direct path to different service daemons, written in C++, Java, Linux increasingly becomes an "event machine" reacting on streams coming over BlueTooth, Wifi, Wimax, USBGPS, GSM, SMS, UMTS, HSPA+, LTE, informing apps, starting processes. A few thousand man-years have been invested by Google already, no chance *ever* for any team to keep up with. Android 4.0 is a free advertising platform on handy. I am using 4.0.x on Nexus for a few days now and am really surprised. I only get AD popups fullscreen from the OS (not within the browser) what i have been searching for on different platforms in the browser or having discussed via mail, twitter, facebook ... Google seems to collect information directly from my virtual keyboard (i have agreed to this explicitly, so please no paranoia!). Times have changed. You are no longer free to choose your programming language. Have fun, Guido Stepken Am 06.01.2012 06:40 schrieb "Ben Coman" <btc@openinworld.com>: Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Thanks dimity what you are doing is cool. Marcus we should buy an android device or get one: Olivier has one I think. Smalltalk on Android is going to be fantastic - and possibly a killer app. Which device will you get? In theory it wouldn't matter but in practice it might. I have been considering getting an Android phone and my choice may be influenced by yours. I might even consider donating some small $ amount if the chosen phone aligns with my interests. Some random thoughts (which ended up with a lot of links, so pick and choose your fancy)... Over christmas the "Samsung Galaxy S II" [1] appears to have been popular with work colleagues here in Western Australia. Consider getting a Jenkins build going with an Android emulator. [2] Consider basing first efforts on top of CyanogenMod [3] - which may be attractive to early adopters to expand the compatibility base [3a] by minimising to difference in manufacturer stack customisations. I personally would use CyanogenMod in any case this to increase performance by eliminating carrier installed bloatware and spyware like Carrier IQ [3b]. Have you seen the Kickstarter funding site [4] [4a] ? Some examples [4b] [4c]. [1] http://www.digitaltrends.com/cell-phone-reviews/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-att-revi... [2] https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Android+Emulator+Plugin [3] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ [3a] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices [3b] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/12/carrier-iq-architecture [4] http://www.kickstarter.com/start [4a] http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#WhatIsKick [4b] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1541803748/punk-mathematics?play=1&ref=s... [4c] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992078142/building-the-open-source-buss... (sorry for the many links) cheers, Ben
Hi Alain! Google has unified development for handy and tablet 4.0. They have introduced scalable, animated tiles, reacting on events, coming from analysing contents of about 100 different protocols streaming through the machine. Google even collects barometer and temperature information global, for own weather forecast, and A-GPS information for traffic jam maps. This new tile approach is even intended to be introduced onto desktops, so i fear, former designs with pulldown menus will look old fashioned in about one year for customers, included Windows 7, Mac OS X. This new tile design even can be found already in Samsung TV's. Like Jobs banned flash on iphone for power consumption disadvantages, Google has dropped the "monolithic" design approach and invented a "multi-vm-vm", where multiple bytecodes are executed in parallel, but time slices are controlled by the underlying linux scheduler. This approach leads to very good uptimes of your handy or tablet. 1/2 Watt incl. Display at normal operation. So, any "monolitic" vm will consume too much power. Pharo Smalltalk completely had to be redesigned to work on multi-vm-vm, where parts of smalltalk code can be time scheduled by the underlying kernel. Apart from the fact, that about a hundred new protocols had to be implemented in pharo, i see NO chance in integrating pharo in the new operating system designs. This is state of development on vm's . And yes, jitter included. Have fun, Guido Stepken Am 06.01.2012 um 18:45 schrieb "Alain Rastoul" <alr.dev@free.fr>:
Hi Guido, Sure, nobody will redevelop the google stack or APIs, just interface with it. The Pharo image have an event mechanism, and IMHO it should be possible to make some interface to Andoid APIs. If i'm correct the Nexus is a phone, not a tablet ?
Alain "Guido Stepken" <gstepken@googlemail.com> a écrit dans le message de news: CANXOX8-4-XPfvjChy8VR9Q_kO7MGeZ7rO4YzRAna28a6iZR3EA@mail.gmail.com... Hi!
With Android 4.0 the complete design has changed a lot. Icons have become scalable, have direct path to different service daemons, written in C++, Java, Linux increasingly becomes an "event machine" reacting on streams coming over BlueTooth, Wifi, Wimax, USBGPS, GSM, SMS, UMTS, HSPA+, LTE, informing apps, starting processes.
A few thousand man-years have been invested by Google already, no chance *ever* for any team to keep up with.
Android 4.0 is a free advertising platform on handy. I am using 4.0.x on Nexus for a few days now and am really surprised. I only get AD popups fullscreen from the OS (not within the browser) what i have been searching for on different platforms in the browser or having discussed via mail, twitter, facebook ... Google seems to collect information directly from my virtual keyboard (i have agreed to this explicitly, so please no paranoia!).
Times have changed. You are no longer free to choose your programming language.
Have fun, Guido Stepken
Am 06.01.2012 06:40 schrieb "Ben Coman" <btc-Tpx8eim74UeIde+eSLyLAQ@public.gmane.org>: Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Thanks dimity what you are doing is cool. Marcus we should buy an android device or get one: Olivier has one I think.
Smalltalk on Android is going to be fantastic - and possibly a killer app. Which device will you get? In theory it wouldn't matter but in practice it might. I have been considering getting an Android phone and my choice may be influenced by yours. I might even consider donating some small $ amount if the chosen phone aligns with my interests. Some random thoughts (which ended up with a lot of links, so pick and choose your fancy)...
Over christmas the "Samsung Galaxy S II" [1] appears to have been popular with work colleagues here in Western Australia. Consider getting a Jenkins build going with an Android emulator. [2]
Consider basing first efforts on top of CyanogenMod [3] - which may be attractive to early adopters to expand the compatibility base [3a] by minimising to difference in manufacturer stack customisations. I personally would use CyanogenMod in any case this to increase performance by eliminating carrier installed bloatware and spyware like Carrier IQ [3b].
Have you seen the Kickstarter funding site [4] [4a] ? Some examples [4b] [4c]. [1] http://www.digitaltrends.com/cell-phone-reviews/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-att-revi... [2] https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Android+Emulator+Plugin [3] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ [3a] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices [3b] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/12/carrier-iq-architecture [4] http://www.kickstarter.com/start [4a] http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#WhatIsKick [4b] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1541803748/punk-mathematics?play=1&ref=s... [4c] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992078142/building-the-open-source-buss...
(sorry for the many links) cheers, Ben
Some code for keyboard support has been written since, but maybe it was not included in the pre-generated apks. Once I add more features, I'll release another apk. And sources (on gitorious) are always there for those wanting to mess with Android build tools ;) I didn't downloaded the NDK yet, just the SDK but I will get hands on it soon. And if yu have an APK that I can download somewhere else than on the market, I am interested (the ALT and CTL key missing are really painful, I use the blue/yellow button emulation but it is not cool)
It would be nice if a smaller base Pharo image could be built such way, so it could be embedded with VM and distributed together.
I am not sure the image size is really a problem on a tablet ? lot of games - angry birds game (free on android market ) for example- are about 30MB if I m right, and the download from the market is no problem. Are you talking of the splitting of the image because of resource size restrictions , as mentioned by andreas in his first post ? (BTW a small image would be good too)
I think Android takes care of it itself: once an application is invisible it is suspended automatically. Or did you notice any performance degradation? I clearly had the feeling that the battery is going down faster when I use Pharo perhaps because not all Smalltalk processes are sleepng and so the vm never sleep ? The UI morphic process make pauses of 20 ms when there is not event , I don't know for others processes (Timer event loop, Input events process). I have to investigate
- interface to android content providers (audio, video, calendar data etc)
Working on it ;) In fact, there is a (partial) interface to the intent system, so a home screen shortcuts can be added to start CogDroid with given image and startup arguments. Reading from Android clipboard has been committed to the HEAD (but there is no support via context menu yet). Cool, if the clipboard vm primitives are ok, the System Clipboard class should work ?.
Regards, Alain
participants (6)
-
Alain Rastoul -
Ben Coman -
Dimitry Golubovsky -
Guido Stepken -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Stéphane Ducasse