[Pharo-project] [ANN] Phobos
Hi all, I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows. It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/ You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc. Cheers, -- Pavel
Very nice! Just FYI, on Mac OS 10.8.2 the Cog window doesn't redraw correctly when resized, and becomes unresponsive. The default size is a bit small for exploring the code. thanks! -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
There is nothing special on the VM used by Phobos and there is no real reason for such behavior because Phobos is only a web application. I suppose that the resizing fails because the CogVM is started from inside of the XULRunner application. But the main issue is that the Pharo window is displayed on OSX at all ;-) The demo image is not good for browsing of the code because it doesn't contain changes file. -- Pavel On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Craig Latta <craig@netjam.org> wrote:
Very nice!
Just FYI, on Mac OS 10.8.2 the Cog window doesn't redraw correctly when resized, and becomes unresponsive. The default size is a bit small for exploring the code.
thanks!
-C
-- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
There is nothing special on the VM used by Phobos and there is no real reason for such behavior because Phobos is only a web application.
Sure, I wasn't talking about the Phobos part, that's all great. It's the Pharo window I want to play with at the moment.
The demo image is not good for browsing of the code because it doesn't contain changes file.
Ah, okay. Well, it'd be a much nicer demo if I could explore the code with the normal browsers. Reading it through the Phobos widgets isn't so useful. thanks again, -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Craig Latta <craig@netjam.org> wrote:
There is nothing special on the VM used by Phobos and there is no real reason for such behavior because Phobos is only a web application.
Sure, I wasn't talking about the Phobos part, that's all great. It's the Pharo window I want to play with at the moment.
The demo image is not good for browsing of the code because it doesn't contain changes file.
Ah, okay. Well, it'd be a much nicer demo if I could explore the code with the normal browsers. Reading it through the Phobos widgets isn't so useful.
You may replace it with your own Pharo 2.0 image, you only need to perform this code: Gofer it url: 'http://mc.stfx.eu/ZincHTTPComponents'; package: 'Zinc-HTTP'; package: 'Zinc-FileSystem'; package: 'Zinc-Tests'; package: 'Zinc-WebSocket-Core'; load. Gofer new squeaksource: 'Seaside30'; package: 'Grease-Core'; package: 'Grease-Pharo-Core'; package: 'Seaside-Pharo-Continuation'; load. Gofer new squeaksource: 'SCouchDB'; package: 'JSON'; load. Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'PavelKrivanek' project: 'Phobos'; package: 'Phobos-Core'; package: 'Phobos-XUL'; package: 'Phobos-HTML'; package: 'Phobos-Demo'; load. I haven't attached the changes and sources files because I wanted to see if it will bring some problems, how big the whole application will be then and because of space consumption. The application comes with Pharo Image, CogVM and XULRunner (that is almost whole Firefox) - that all makes it pretty big. Do not try to imagine one-click bundles for all platforms ;-) -- Pavel
thanks again,
-C
-- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
On 9 October 2012 20:48, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
That looks fantastic, Pavel! How chatty is the communication between the browser and the image? frank
Cheers, -- Pavel
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9 October 2012 20:48, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
That looks fantastic, Pavel! How chatty is the communication between the browser and the image?
Quite a lot. The XUL is not sent to the client as XML string but in form of JSON objects (but there are good reasons to do it this way). But not all user events are sent from client to server. JavaScript sends only messages about execution of specified callbacks (for example 'oncommand' event for button). Some operations require several messages. For example if you click on a button that should send the result of a JavaScript expression to the Smalltalk, 3 messages are sent. -- Pavel
frank
Cheers, -- Pavel
It looks really nice. I imagine that Spec could generate XUL too. Stef On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel <01.png>
Unfortunately currently the Spec is too Morphic oriented and too closely linked with Morphic that it will require really huge effort to make it work. I will try to discuss it with Ben. -- Pavel On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
It looks really nice. I imagine that Spec could generate XUL too.
Stef On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel <01.png>
It was part of my battle plan to rule the world ;) We wanted with Nico to part it to Amber to get the Javascript part for free, then generate some XUL :) Anyway, really cool job, and impressive as well :) Ben On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
It looks really nice. I imagine that Spec could generate XUL too.
Stef On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel <01.png>
Hi Ben, I really would like to write Spec binding for Phobos (Esteban will want to do it for Mars etc.). But, how to say that, Spec was not written with UI Independence in mind :-) Very basic example of that fact: ComposableModel>>buildWithSpec: aSpec "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument" | widget | (self spec notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) ifTrue: [ | old | self needRebuild: true. old := self widget. old removeAllMorphs. self ensureExtentFor: old. widget := SpecInterpreter buildMorphFor: self withSpec: aSpec. widget submorphs do:[ :e | old addMorphBack: e ]. self spec instance: old. ^ old ] ifFalse: [ widget := SpecInterpreter buildMorphFor: self withSpec: aSpec. ]. self ensureExtentFor: widget. ^ widget Can you please do at least basic steps in the architecture of Spec to make it more independent on Morphic? Cheers, -- Pavel On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
It was part of my battle plan to rule the world ;)
We wanted with Nico to part it to Amber to get the Javascript part for free, then generate some XUL :)
Anyway, really cool job, and impressive as well :)
Ben
On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
It looks really nice. I imagine that Spec could generate XUL too.
Stef On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel <01.png>
This method is actually the only one from ComposableModel with direct Morphic binding :) I am still trying to move that away, but I needed the rebuild to work Ben On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
Hi Ben,
I really would like to write Spec binding for Phobos (Esteban will want to do it for Mars etc.). But, how to say that, Spec was not written with UI Independence in mind :-) Very basic example of that fact:
ComposableModel>>buildWithSpec: aSpec "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument" | widget |
(self spec notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) ifTrue: [ | old | self needRebuild: true. old := self widget. old removeAllMorphs. self ensureExtentFor: old. widget := SpecInterpreter buildMorphFor: self withSpec: aSpec. widget submorphs do:[ :e | old addMorphBack: e ]. self spec instance: old. ^ old ] ifFalse: [ widget := SpecInterpreter buildMorphFor: self withSpec: aSpec. ].
self ensureExtentFor: widget.
^ widget
Can you please do at least basic steps in the architecture of Spec to make it more independent on Morphic?
Cheers, -- Pavel
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
It was part of my battle plan to rule the world ;)
We wanted with Nico to part it to Amber to get the Javascript part for free, then generate some XUL :)
Anyway, really cool job, and impressive as well :)
Ben
On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
It looks really nice. I imagine that Spec could generate XUL too.
Stef On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel <01.png>
On 11 October 2012 20:52, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
This method is actually the only one from ComposableModel with direct Morphic binding :)
I am still trying to move that away, but I needed the rebuild to work
i think you can introduce own protocol (and put it as extension to morphic, if you want to) so, instead of saying widget removeAllMorphs you will use own extension method ,like: widget specRemoveAllChilds etc (spec here is namespacing prefix for a method, to indicate that it belongs to spec package and to indicate that it is a contract implied between spec and widget)
Ben
On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
Hi Ben,
I really would like to write Spec binding for Phobos (Esteban will want to do it for Mars etc.). But, how to say that, Spec was not written with UI Independence in mind :-) Very basic example of that fact:
ComposableModel>>buildWithSpec: aSpec "Build the widget using the spec name provided as argument" | widget |
(self spec notNil and: [ self needRebuild not ]) ifTrue: [ | old | self needRebuild: true. old := self widget. old removeAllMorphs. self ensureExtentFor: old. widget := SpecInterpreter buildMorphFor: self withSpec: aSpec. widget submorphs do:[ :e | old addMorphBack: e ]. self spec instance: old. ^ old ] ifFalse: [ widget := SpecInterpreter buildMorphFor: self withSpec: aSpec. ].
self ensureExtentFor: widget.
^ widget
Can you please do at least basic steps in the architecture of Spec to make it more independent on Morphic?
Cheers, -- Pavel
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
It was part of my battle plan to rule the world ;)
We wanted with Nico to part it to Amber to get the Javascript part for free, then generate some XUL :)
Anyway, really cool job, and impressive as well :)
Ben
On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
It looks really nice. I imagine that Spec could generate XUL too.
Stef On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel <01.png>
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
On 09 Oct 2012, at 21:48, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
Very cool, great job, indeed. Sven PS: I like the message 'Please support VM devellopers to provide a headless mode' ;-) -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 09 Oct 2012, at 21:48, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
Very cool, great job, indeed.
A substantial part of this is also your credit ;-) I would like to ask whether the issue with image hanging during resuming of the image with active connections is already solved. For the development I used few weeks old versions of Zinc packages. As you can imagine, it was sometimes really annoying to lost the image :-) -- Pavel
Sven
PS: I like the message 'Please support VM devellopers to provide a headless mode' ;-)
-- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
On 10 Oct 2012, at 09:34, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
A substantial part of this is also your credit ;-)
Thanks, Pavel, but you are exaggerating.
I would like to ask whether the issue with image hanging during resuming of the image with active connections is already solved. For the development I used few weeks old versions of Zinc packages. As you can imagine, it was sometimes really annoying to lost the image :-)
I was about to write a whole explanation when I found something. Please add the following method: ZnManagingMultiThreadedServer>>#stop: unregister super stop: unregister. self closeConnections (ZnManagingMultiThreadedServer>>#stop can be removed). This could fix your issue. Sven --- Name: Zinc-HTTP-SvenVanCaekenberghe.310 Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe Time: 10 October 2012, 10:48:30.703 am UUID: a50aebff-8910-4553-95d7-b89a9e97a8f4 Ancestors: Zinc-HTTP-SvenVanCaekenberghe.309 bugfix: ZnManagingMultiThreadedServer was overwriting the wrong #stop method (thx Pavel Krivanek) --- -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 10 Oct 2012, at 09:34, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
A substantial part of this is also your credit ;-)
Thanks, Pavel, but you are exaggerating.
I would like to ask whether the issue with image hanging during resuming of the image with active connections is already solved. For the development I used few weeks old versions of Zinc packages. As you can imagine, it was sometimes really annoying to lost the image :-)
I was about to write a whole explanation when I found something.
Please add the following method:
ZnManagingMultiThreadedServer>>#stop: unregister super stop: unregister. self closeConnections
(ZnManagingMultiThreadedServer>>#stop can be removed).
This could fix your issue.
Hmm, I tried to update the packages to load this fix, then I started the XULRunner to open a WebSockets connection and finally I tried to save the image. Unfortunately it hanged again :-( -- Pavel
Sven
--- Name: Zinc-HTTP-SvenVanCaekenberghe.310 Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe Time: 10 October 2012, 10:48:30.703 am UUID: a50aebff-8910-4553-95d7-b89a9e97a8f4 Ancestors: Zinc-HTTP-SvenVanCaekenberghe.309
bugfix: ZnManagingMultiThreadedServer was overwriting the wrong #stop method (thx Pavel Krivanek) ---
-- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
On 10 Oct 2012, at 11:04, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmm, I tried to update the packages to load this fix, then I started the XULRunner to open a WebSockets connection and finally I tried to save the image. Unfortunately it hanged again :-(
OK, I will try again on Linux myself later on. -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 10 Oct 2012, at 11:04, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmm, I tried to update the packages to load this fix, then I started the XULRunner to open a WebSockets connection and finally I tried to save the image. Unfortunately it hanged again :-(
OK, I will try again on Linux myself later on.
When I closed XULRunner after a while the image started to respond. So I tried to reproduce it but next time it didn't help. -- Pavel
-- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
Impressive. I would be interested in investigating the possibility of rendering Glamour on top of this. I took a look at the internal of the image to see what is needed. Is there a little description somewhere of how to assemble the parts? Cheers, Doru On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Impressive.
I would be interested in investigating the possibility of rendering Glamour on top of this.
From the previous experiences I know that it will be quite easy to create OmniBrowser binding. So I think that with Glamour it will be similar.
I took a look at the internal of the image to see what is needed. Is there a little description somewhere of how to assemble the parts?
Can you be more concrete? -- Pavel
Cheers, Doru
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Hi, On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Impressive.
I would be interested in investigating the possibility of rendering Glamour on top of this.
From the previous experiences I know that it will be quite easy to create OmniBrowser binding. So I think that with Glamour it will be similar.
Ok. That is good news.
I took a look at the internal of the image to see what is needed. Is there a little description somewhere of how to assemble the parts?
Can you be more concrete?
I meant that it seems that I need several dependencies that are external to the image. One approach would be to just take the bundle you created and just update the image. But, to get the whole scenario reproducible we would need to understand what exactly is needed to put this bundle together and how to do it. Cheers, Doru
-- Pavel
Cheers, Doru
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Impressive.
I would be interested in investigating the possibility of rendering Glamour on top of this.
From the previous experiences I know that it will be quite easy to create OmniBrowser binding. So I think that with Glamour it will be similar.
Ok. That is good news.
I took a look at the internal of the image to see what is needed. Is there a little description somewhere of how to assemble the parts?
Can you be more concrete?
I meant that it seems that I need several dependencies that are external to the image. One approach would be to just take the bundle you created and just update the image. But, to get the whole scenario reproducible we would need to understand what exactly is needed to put this bundle together and how to do it.
The structure of XULRunner bundles is described on MDN: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/XULRunner/Deploying_XULRunner_1.8. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/XULRunner/Creating_custom_app_bundl... In Phobos it is complicated by the inclusion of CogVM. I'll try to improve the documentation of the packaging... -- Pavel
Cheers, Doru
-- Pavel
Cheers, Doru
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Ahoj Pavel, Very impressive indeed! I specially like WebSocket based communication between UI and image. WebSockets as two way full-duplex communication betwe web client and server and as upgrade of plain HTTP connection is certainly the future for web apps, specially those with tightly coupled web clients and servers. About XUL, what is your impression about its future and, do you plan some replacement for it in the future, maybe with full HTML5, Amber based maybe? Best regads Janko Dne 09. 10. 2012 21:48, piše Pavel Krivanek:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel
-- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek@eranova.si> wrote:
Ahoj Pavel,
Very impressive indeed! I specially like WebSocket based communication between UI and image. WebSockets as two way full-duplex communication betwe web client and server and as upgrade of plain HTTP connection is certainly the future for web apps, specially those with tightly coupled web clients and servers.
The support in latest versions of the web browsers starts to be finally good so it really makes sense to think about creation of something similar to Phobos for the general web development.
About XUL, what is your impression about its future and, do you plan some replacement for it in the future, maybe with full HTML5, Amber based maybe?
XUL not fulfilled the expectations that have been inserted into it. The only big vendor that supports it is Mozilla. A the role of native non-web applications will certainly gradually decrease. So I have long wondered if I should devote time to this project. But XULRunner is actively developed and certainly in the long term will also. It is good enough for our needs and it is very close to the web development so possible future switch to HTML5 or something similar would be natural. From this point it is maybe better time investition than native UI bindings. If I will need it for some project (or if someone will support it), I will modify it for the web development too. Cheers, -- Pavel
Best regads Janko
Dne 09. 10. 2012 21:48, piše Pavel Krivanek:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel
-- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Dne 10. 10. 2012 14:15, piše Pavel Krivanek:
About XUL, what is your impression about its future and, do you plan some replacement for it in the future, maybe with full HTML5, Amber based maybe?
XUL not fulfilled the expectations that have been inserted into it. The only big vendor that supports it is Mozilla. A the role of native non-web applications will certainly gradually decrease. So I have long wondered if I should devote time to this project. But XULRunner is actively developed and certainly in the long term will also. It is good enough for our needs and it is very close to the web development so possible future switch to HTML5 or something similar would be natural. From this point it is maybe better time investition than native UI bindings.
It seems Mozilla is already actively working and proposing new HTML5 APIs like this one added to just released Firefox 16 : Getting started with making Web Apps https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Apps/Getting_Started After all that HTML5 infrastructure will be in-place, they will IMHO provide a painless transition from XUL as well. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Hi Pavel and all! On 10/10/2012 02:15 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
About XUL, what is your impression about its future and, do you plan some replacement for it in the future, maybe with full HTML5, Amber based maybe?
XUL not fulfilled the expectations that have been inserted into it. The only big vendor that supports it is Mozilla. A the role of native non-web applications will certainly gradually decrease. So I have long wondered if I should devote time to this project. But XULRunner is actively developed and certainly in the long term will also. It is good enough for our needs and it is very close to the web development so possible future switch to HTML5 or something similar would be natural. From this point it is maybe better time investition than native UI bindings.
The XULRunner is very much such a "UI player" that I have envisioned for over 20 years. Given the diversity of UI platforms these days I have always thought the concept would gain more attraction - not less. On the other hand - the "no install" argument for pure web apps is still very strong. One thing that could really boost the attractiveness of XUL is if we had runners for iPhone/Android/WP8 etc. Quick googling shows a bit of discussion, but no such beasts?
If I will need it for some project (or if someone will support it), I will modify it for the web development too.
I really think you should consider talking a bit to Nicolas and take a look at what he has been doing with Amber plus Pharo backend (in SmalltalkHub for example) using Magritte and Promises etc. Amber has a Seaside-canvas style UI framework with components called "widgets" etc, and taking your work in XUL and putting it into Amber seems like a perfect fit IMHO. And it would also create a really nice native UI Smalltalk IDE. :) regards, Göran
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Göran Krampe <goran@krampe.se> wrote:
Hi Pavel and all!
On 10/10/2012 02:15 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote:
About XUL, what is your impression about its future and, do you plan some replacement for it in the future, maybe with full HTML5, Amber based maybe?
XUL not fulfilled the expectations that have been inserted into it. The only big vendor that supports it is Mozilla. A the role of native non-web applications will certainly gradually decrease. So I have long wondered if I should devote time to this project. But XULRunner is actively developed and certainly in the long term will also. It is good enough for our needs and it is very close to the web development so possible future switch to HTML5 or something similar would be natural. From this point it is maybe better time investition than native UI bindings.
The XULRunner is very much such a "UI player" that I have envisioned for over 20 years. Given the diversity of UI platforms these days I have always thought the concept would gain more attraction - not less.
On the other hand - the "no install" argument for pure web apps is still very strong.
One thing that could really boost the attractiveness of XUL is if we had runners for iPhone/Android/WP8 etc. Quick googling shows a bit of discussion, but no such beasts?
From a conceptual point of view XULRunners is really nice project.
I heard something about FirefoxOS for mobile devices. If it will be based on XULRunner than it is probable that there will be a version for other platforms too.
If I will need it for some project (or if someone will support it), I will modify it for the web development too.
I really think you should consider talking a bit to Nicolas and take a look at what he has been doing with Amber plus Pharo backend (in SmalltalkHub for example) using Magritte and Promises etc.
Amber has a Seaside-canvas style UI framework with components called "widgets" etc, and taking your work in XUL and putting it into Amber seems like a perfect fit IMHO.
And it would also create a really nice native UI Smalltalk IDE. :)
I played with the idea of combination of Amber and XULRunner. And I treid to do some experiments in this direction. Because then Amber would be standalone desktop Smalltalk implementation that would use XULRunner as Virtual Machine. Maybe sometimes ... :-) -- Pavel
regards, Göran
I tested Phobos on a Mac Retina, and it appears fuzzy. Is there any possibility to fix this? Doru On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com>wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Can you please send a screenshot? Quick look at Google told me that Firefox has similar problems. Try to add this line to the defaults/preferences/prefs.js pref("layers.acceleration.disabled", true); XUL can be modified by styles like HTML. Maybe it can be fixed by special stylesheet. -- Pavel On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I tested Phobos on a Mac Retina, and it appears fuzzy. Is there any possibility to fix this?
Doru
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to introduce you Phobos - the XULRunner based Smalltalk framework for development of native GUI with standard look&feel for Linux, Mac OS X and Windows.
It is based on Zinc, WebSockets and Seaside continuations. For more information including more screenshots see the project page:
http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/
You should pay attentions to FAQ too: http://code.google.com/p/phobos-framework/wiki/FAQ
Phobos has Seaside-like components and rendering style, can combine XUL with HTML or SVG, supports printing etc.
Cheers, -- Pavel
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
participants (10)
-
Benjamin -
Craig Latta -
Frank Shearar -
Göran Krampe -
Igor Stasenko -
Janko Mivšek -
Pavel Krivanek -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Tudor Girba