Are Critical Tools Becoming Too Brittle?
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation... ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ? There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ... Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi, Indeed, please help us isolate that case. Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
Doru, Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject? Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
Indeed, please help us isolate that case.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
I am waiting for the Spur image because it should already have the primitives and I will get back to the ProtoObject issue. Could you open an issue in the meantime? Cheers, Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Doru,
Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject?
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
Indeed, please help us isolate that case.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Every thing should have the right to be different."
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I am waiting for the Spur image because it should already have the primitives and I will get back to the ProtoObject issue. Could you open an issue in the meantime?
The mirror primitives should be in the old VM as well.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Doru,
Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject?
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
Indeed, please help us isolate that case.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Every thing should have the right to be different."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Yes, but they were not in the image and as the Spur image was coming anyway I thought I just wait for it :) Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:55 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote: I am waiting for the Spur image because it should already have the primitives and I will get back to the ProtoObject issue. Could you open an issue in the meantime?
The mirror primitives should be in the old VM as well.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Doru,
Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject?
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
Indeed, please help us isolate that case.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Every thing should have the right to be different."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Don't give to get. Just give."
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Yes, but they were not in the image and as the Spur image was coming anyway I thought I just wait for it :)
+1 then :)
Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:55 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote: I am waiting for the Spur image because it should already have the primitives and I will get back to the ProtoObject issue. Could you open an issue in the meantime?
The mirror primitives should be in the old VM as well.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo < emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Doru,
Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject?
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
Indeed, please help us isolate that case.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Every thing should have the right to be different."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Don't give to get. Just give."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Yeap, they are in the VM, I used them with the fileout you sent me. I guess Tudor was referring to the spur *image* and not the VM. The issue is already opened: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17170/Context-missing-primitives Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-12-16 18:55 GMT-03:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I am waiting for the Spur image because it should already have the primitives and I will get back to the ProtoObject issue. Could you open an issue in the meantime?
The mirror primitives should be in the old VM as well.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Doru,
Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject?
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
Indeed, please help us isolate that case.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Every thing should have the right to be different."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
We should integrate the Mirror package of guillermo. But he was busy and sick. Stef Le 16/12/15 23:03, Esteban A. Maringolo a écrit :
Yeap, they are in the VM, I used them with the fileout you sent me. I guess Tudor was referring to the spur *image* and not the VM.
The issue is already opened: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17170/Context-missing-primitives Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 18:55 GMT-03:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I am waiting for the Spur image because it should already have the primitives and I will get back to the ProtoObject issue. Could you open an issue in the meantime?
The mirror primitives should be in the old VM as well.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Doru,
Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject?
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
Indeed, please help us isolate that case.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Every thing should have the right to be different."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Would certainly be interesting. Until mirrors come, I would still use the primitives as there are only a few places and we can adapt later on again. Cheers, Doru
On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:06 PM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
We should integrate the Mirror package of guillermo. But he was busy and sick.
Stef
Le 16/12/15 23:03, Esteban A. Maringolo a écrit :
Yeap, they are in the VM, I used them with the fileout you sent me. I guess Tudor was referring to the spur *image* and not the VM.
The issue is already opened: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17170/Context-missing-primitives Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 18:55 GMT-03:00 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
I am waiting for the Spur image because it should already have the primitives and I will get back to the ProtoObject issue. Could you open an issue in the meantime?
The mirror primitives should be in the old VM as well.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 16, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Doru,
Did you fix the issue involving instances of subclasses of ProtoObject?
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-12-16 2:46 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com>:
Hi,
Indeed, please help us isolate that case.
Cheers, Doru
On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
I assume you are using the GT inspector. Do you have custom gt inspector presentations ? Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
There is also a 'Basic Inspect It' menu item ...
Can you isolate it so that we can see it, try it ?
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situation...
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Every thing should have the right to be different."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
Are you sure your #printString is OK ?
Aha! @$!$%!#$!#$#@ I got bitten for the umpteenth time by the #name trap. My custom #printOn: was calling #name, which I hadn't yet defined, and so called the default implementation, which sends #printString => infinite unbreakable loop. Thanks for the help. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206p4868... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 15 Dec 2015, at 23:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
I just tried to inspect a domain object and I froze my image and had to force quit. How do I debug this? And, more importantly, when an error is encountered in a critical, basic tool like this, should there be some reasonable bare-bones alternative, like the emergency debugger? Not being able to inspect an object without crashing seems like a pretty crippling situationâ¦
Did you send #basicInspect? That should still give you the original minimal inspector.
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Max Leske wrote
Did you send #basicInspect? That should still give you the original minimal inspector.
Good tip! I didn't think of that. I see it's even in the context menu :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Are-Critical-Tools-Becoming-Too-Brittle-tp4867206p4868... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (7)
-
Eliot Miranda -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
Max Leske -
Sean P. DeNigris -
stepharo -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Tudor Girba