[Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??
Hello all, I sometimes have reason to run code on machines that are accessible only by a remote desktop connection, and I have noticed something that might be a useful clue: on an identical setup (same server, same network, same RDP client), Dolphin performs quite well and Pharo struggles (often severely). Are we simply that much slower in generating graphics and/or pushing it over the RDP connection, or is morphic drawing too much? I suppose the RDP server could be hindering Pharo by always sending one whole window (e.g. the whole Pharo desktop) at a time or something stupid like that. It might be worth a look by someone with morphic and RDP expertise. Bill
Indeed. Since Dolphin uses native window components, RDP can work at a more abstract level (i.e. aware of things like buttons, checkboxes etc.). So, for example, a button is drawn by the RDP client, effectively. Squeak/Pharo draws its own, therefore all updates are bitmap based and the graphics (the World bits) are sent across the link... Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??
Hello all,
I sometimes have reason to run code on machines that are accessible only by a remote desktop connection, and I have noticed something that might be a useful clue: on an identical setup (same server, same network, same RDP client), Dolphin performs quite well and Pharo struggles (often severely). Are we simply that much slower in generating graphics and/or pushing it over the RDP connection, or is morphic drawing too much? I suppose the RDP server could be hindering Pharo by always sending one whole window (e.g. the whole Pharo desktop) at a time or something stupid like that. It might be worth a look by someone with morphic and RDP expertise.
Bill
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On 22 February 2010 17:16, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2@btinternet.com> wrote:
Indeed. Since Dolphin uses native window components, RDP can work at a more abstract level (i.e. aware of things like buttons, checkboxes etc.). So, for example, a button is drawn by the RDP client, effectively.
Squeak/Pharo draws its own, therefore all updates are bitmap based and the graphics (the World bits) are sent across the link...
I haven't heard of RDP before. What if server using different font sizes/theme for UI? To my knowledge, all remote-desktop tools transferring the updated bits, using various techniques to detect the portion of screen to be updated. On windows, there's even a virtual display driver, which adds a video card to list of devices. So, any windows application can't escape such low level, and all what is drawn on such 'display' can be transmitted via network to show on different PC.
Regards, Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??
Hello all,
I sometimes have reason to run code on machines that are accessible only by a remote desktop connection, and I have noticed something that might be a useful clue: on an identical setup (same server, same network, same RDP client), Dolphin performs quite well and Pharo struggles (often severely). Are we simply that much slower in generating graphics and/or pushing it over the RDP connection, or is morphic drawing too much? Â I suppose the RDP server could be hindering Pharo by always sending one whole window (e.g. the whole Pharo desktop) at a time or something stupid like that. It might be worth a look by someone with morphic and RDP expertise.
Bill
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
RDP specs can be found here... http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc240445(PROT.10).aspx Note, inparticular, the GDI Acceleration extensions... OK, a little lower level than "buttons", but higher level than bitmaps. Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua@gmail.com> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??
On 22 February 2010 17:16, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2@btinternet.com> wrote:
Indeed. Since Dolphin uses native window components, RDP can work at a more abstract level (i.e. aware of things like buttons, checkboxes etc.). So, for example, a button is drawn by the RDP client, effectively.
Squeak/Pharo draws its own, therefore all updates are bitmap based and the graphics (the World bits) are sent across the link...
I haven't heard of RDP before. What if server using different font sizes/theme for UI? To my knowledge, all remote-desktop tools transferring the updated bits, using various techniques to detect the portion of screen to be updated. On windows, there's even a virtual display driver, which adds a video card to list of devices. So, any windows application can't escape such low level, and all what is drawn on such 'display' can be transmitted via network to show on different PC.
Regards, Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] Clue about morphic performance??
Hello all,
I sometimes have reason to run code on machines that are accessible only by a remote desktop connection, and I have noticed something that might be a useful clue: on an identical setup (same server, same network, same RDP client), Dolphin performs quite well and Pharo struggles (often severely). Are we simply that much slower in generating graphics and/or pushing it over the RDP connection, or is morphic drawing too much? I suppose the RDP server could be hindering Pharo by always sending one whole window (e.g. the whole Pharo desktop) at a time or something stupid like that. It might be worth a look by someone with morphic and RDP expertise.
Bill
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
participants (3)
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Gary Chambers -
Igor Stasenko -
Schwab,Wilhelm K