Usability issue : the class/instance button in Pharo 5 gives poor feedback
Hi Folks, Does anyone else find this to be a problem? I can never tell whether I am on the class or the instance side as the button toggle is non-obvious. In fact, the (C) is more clearly visible on the instance side, which is counter intuitive. I would rather see the name of the button change between âInstanceâ and âClassâ so I always know where I am. Cheers, Oscar
Oscar,
On 19 Aug 2016, at 14:15, Oscar Nierstrasz <oscar.nierstrasz@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Folks,
Does anyone else find this to be a problem? I can never tell whether I am on the class or the instance side as the button toggle is non-obvious. In fact, the (C) is more clearly visible on the instance side, which is counter intuitive.
I would rather see the name of the button change between âInstanceâ and âClassâ so I always know where I am.
Cheers, Oscar
You are right, toggle buttons are never very intuitive. Two way switches with double green/gray labels are better but take more space. In Pharo 6 Dark Theme, there are several 'clear' differences: the blue of the class button selection (pressed), the title of the browser window, the changed template or protocols, no ? It is not perfect, but good enough, there is no easy improvement without taking more space, IMHO. Sven
On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 02:15:06PM +0200, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote:
Hi Folks,
Does anyone else find this to be a problem? I can never tell whether I am on the class or the instance side as the button toggle is non-obvious. In fact, the (C) is more clearly visible on the instance side, which is counter intuitive.
I would rather see the name of the button change between âInstanceâ and âClassâ so I always know where I am.
This would be imho confusing, because you would always see the opposite (it's a button, so the label should state what should happen when you click on it, not describing the current context). But there is also another visual clue which always makes it obvious (for me at least) on which side I am: on class side all methods are bold. Peter
Peter, Note that bold is not always as obvious as you think ... I don't think, I've noticed that difference ... also when the hierarchy button is clicked the package/category list changes in some subtle way (don't recall at the moment), but it is not obvious enough for me to recognize the difference and always end up trying unsuccessfully to get a menu in the package/category list before I realize that the highlight button is clicked --- perhaps eventually I will learn to recognize the differences more readily --- but it is certainly annoying right now ... Dale On 8/19/16 2:54 PM, Peter Uhnak wrote:
On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 02:15:06PM +0200, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote:
Hi Folks,
Does anyone else find this to be a problem? I can never tell whether I am on the class or the instance side as the button toggle is non-obvious. In fact, the (C) is more clearly visible on the instance side, which is counter intuitive.
I would rather see the name of the button change between âInstanceâ and âClassâ so I always know where I am. This would be imho confusing, because you would always see the opposite (it's a button, so the label should state what should happen when you click on it, not describing the current context).
But there is also another visual clue which always makes it obvious (for me at least) on which side I am: on class side all methods are bold.
Peter
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 09:07:57PM +0200, Dale Henrichs wrote:
Peter,
Note that bold is not always as obvious as you think ... I don't think, I've noticed that difference ... also when the hierarchy button is clicked the package/category list changes in some subtle way
Subtle way? It's very different; when you are in hierarchy view,the packages list has gray background and the text is gray too, compared to black on white. If you consider this subtle, maybe we should have a new theme that would focus on accessibility (=making colors more distinct)? Peter
On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 11:30:00AM +0200, Peter Uhnak wrote:
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 09:07:57PM +0200, Dale Henrichs wrote:
Peter,
Note that bold is not always as obvious as you think ... I don't think, I've noticed that difference ... also when the hierarchy button is clicked the package/category list changes in some subtle way
Subtle way?
It's very different; when you are in hierarchy view,the packages list has gray background and the text is gray too, compared to black on white. If you consider this subtle, maybe we should have a new theme that would focus on accessibility (=making colors more distinct)?
Peter
I agree with Dale here. Maybe it's because my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, or maybe it's because I'm not used to this style of queue, but I never see the visual queues Peter mentioned. Thanks, Alistair
Well, as a user I want to see the current context as well. Thanks for pointing out that the methods and protocols on the class side are bold! Now that I know this I will watch for it; but it is not at all obvious. Following your point about buttons indicating what they would do, why not have the button say (C) when it would switch to the class view and (I) when it would switch back to the Instance view? Oscar
On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 02:15:06PM +0200, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote:
Hi Folks,
Does anyone else find this to be a problem? I can never tell whether I am on the class or the instance side as the button toggle is non-obvious. In fact, the (C) is more clearly visible on the instance side, which is counter intuitive.
I would rather see the name of the button change between ?Instance? and ?Class? so I always know where I am.
This would be imho confusing, because you would always see the opposite (it's a button, so the label should state what should happen when you click on it, not describing the current context).
But there is also another visual clue which always makes it obvious (for me at least) on which side I am: on class side all methods are bold.
Peter
If you have ideas let us know. In the past we changed for the radio because of that. What I do not like that is that we cannot press on a package when we are in hierarchy mode and this is super boring because it breask my flow. Stef Le 20/8/16 à 16:33, Oscar Nierstrasz a écrit :
Well, as a user I want to see the current context as well. Thanks for pointing out that the methods and protocols on the class side are bold! Now that I know this I will watch for it; but it is not at all obvious.
Following your point about buttons indicating what they would do, why not have the button say (C) when it would switch to the class view and (I) when it would switch back to the Instance view?
Oscar
On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 02:15:06PM +0200, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote:
Hi Folks,
Does anyone else find this to be a problem? I can never tell whether I am on the class or the instance side as the button toggle is non-obvious. In fact, the (C) is more clearly visible on the instance side, which is counter intuitive.
I would rather see the name of the button change between ?Instance? and ?Class? so I always know where I am. This would be imho confusing, because you would always see the opposite (it's a button, so the label should state what should happen when you click on it, not describing the current context).
But there is also another visual clue which always makes it obvious (for me at least) on which side I am: on class side all methods are bold.
Peter
On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 09:30:59AM +0200, stepharo wrote:
If you have ideas let us know.
In the past we changed for the radio because of that.
What I do not like that is that we cannot press on a package when we are in hierarchy mode
and this is super boring because it breask my flow.
+1
Stef
I will open an issue and try to allocate time to address but if someone has some time it would be great to have some helps. Le 22/8/16 à 14:37, Alistair Grant a écrit :
On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 09:30:59AM +0200, stepharo wrote:
If you have ideas let us know.
In the past we changed for the radio because of that.
What I do not like that is that we cannot press on a package when we are in hierarchy mode
and this is super boring because it breask my flow. +1
Stef
On 20/08/16 16:33, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote:
Well, as a user I want to see the current context as well. Thanks for pointing out that the methods and protocols on the class side are bold! Now that I know this I will watch for it; but it is not at all obvious.
Indeed. A visual indicator not only needs to be there, it also needs to be obviously connected to the widget influencing it. Neither of the three buttons provide that. The hover texts should adapt to the button state, b.t.w. I thought the color differences of the forward and backward arrow of the history navigator might have something to do with being on the first/last item, but that is not the case. Stephan
What about something like this? Best regards, Henrik -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Eggermont Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 10:36 PM To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Usability issue : the class/instance button in Pharo 5 gives poor feedback On 20/08/16 16:33, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote:
Well, as a user I want to see the current context as well. Thanks for pointing out that the methods and protocols on the class side are bold! Now that I know this I will watch for it; but it is not at all obvious.
Indeed. A visual indicator not only needs to be there, it also needs to be obviously connected to the widget influencing it. Neither of the three buttons provide that. The hover texts should adapt to the button state, b.t.w. I thought the color differences of the forward and backward arrow of the history navigator might have something to do with being on the first/last item, but that is not the case. Stephan
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:36 AM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:
On 20/08/16 16:33, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote:
Well, as a user I want to see the current context as well. Thanks for pointing out that the methods and protocols on the class side are bold!
Now that I know this I will watch for it; but it is not at all obvious.
Indeed. A visual indicator not only needs to be there, it also needs to be obviously connected to the widget influencing it.
The bottom of the protocol pane would be a good option. An alternative would be the protocol pane being a tree view with two top level items . * Instance protocols * Class protocols Actually!! this might have the added benefit of helping newcomers. It seems common that newcomers following tutorials lose track of which "side" they are adding methods too, which may(?) lead to frustration and abandoning of the tutorial. cheers -ben
Neither of the three buttons provide that. The hover texts should adapt to the button state, b.t.w.
I thought the color differences of the forward and backward arrow of the history navigator might have something to do with being on the first/last item, but that is not the case.
Stephan
participants (9)
-
Alistair Grant -
Ben Coman -
Dale Henrichs -
Henrik Nergaard -
Oscar Nierstrasz -
Peter Uhnak -
Stephan Eggermont -
stepharo -
Sven Van Caekenberghe