[Pharo-project] Increase populatity of Pharo by doing some Killer-OpenSource-Tools
Hi, i suspect, that the popularity of Pharo (or Smalltalk in general) could be increased by developing some "Killer-OpenSource-Tools". By "Killer-OpenSource-Tools" i think of Tools, e.g. for supporting the Software-Development-Process in general. Moose of course could become such a tool. But i think of some standard Tools like Bug-Tracking/ Project Management. Let me explain by a short example. In a lot of projects i needed to use Trac (http://trac.edgewall.org/) as a Ticketing system. Trac is a "simple" Python script to manage Tasks/ Tickets, it is customizable and can be enhanced. But it is very very ugly, configuration is very unhandy. We like to print tickets to pin them to a whiteboard for use in daily scrum meetings. This and additional reports are made by BIRT-Reports. Everything feels very unstable but a lot of companies prefer Trac because of licensing issues (e.g. Jira is better but commercial). A simple and good looking Ticketing-System for use in an agile team would be a good thing - it's a CRUD-Application with some Reporting and maybe some eyecandy. Another idea could be a Tool for organizing activities regarding Softwaretests, e.g. generation of Testspecifications/ -plans and reports on test-runs. I used TestLink (http://www.teamst.org/) but it is ugly and unhandy too ... Pier CMS could be a good solution for Intranets or Websites, but the lack of Documentation keeps people from using it. Is anyone interested in creating some OpenSource-Projects for use in a wider range? Those Tools should look "sexy" and should be easy to try (OneClick) or to install as a Service. regards, Stefan
On Mar 9, 2012, at 1:05 PM, Stefan Krecher wrote:
Hi,
i suspect, that the popularity of Pharo (or Smalltalk in general) could be increased by developing some "Killer-OpenSource-Tools". By "Killer-OpenSource-Tools" i think of Tools, e.g. for supporting the Software-Development-Process in general. Moose of course could become such a tool. But i think of some standard Tools like Bug-Tracking/ Project Management.
I agree
Let me explain by a short example. In a lot of projects i needed to use Trac (http://trac.edgewall.org/) as a Ticketing system. Trac is a "simple" Python script to manage Tasks/ Tickets, it is customizable and can be enhanced. But it is very very ugly, configuration is very unhandy. We like to print tickets to pin them to a whiteboard for use in daily scrum meetings. This and additional reports are made by BIRT-Reports. Everything feels very unstable but a lot of companies prefer Trac because of licensing issues (e.g. Jira is better but commercial). A simple and good looking Ticketing-System for use in an agile team would be a good thing - it's a CRUD-Application with some Reporting and maybe some eye candy.
Why don't you start based on experience to build a tool and share with us.
Another idea could be a Tool for organizing activities regarding Softwaretests, e.g. generation of Testspecifications/ -plans and reports on test-runs. I used TestLink (http://www.teamst.org/) but it is ugly and unhandy too ...
Pier CMS could be a good solution for Intranets or Websites, but the lack of Documentation keeps people from using it.
Is anyone interested in creating some OpenSource-Projects for use in a wider range? Those Tools should look "sexy" and should be easy to try (OneClick) or to install as a Service.
Yes we are lot of people interested in that. Just quite busy.
regards, Stefan
Am 9. März 2012 15:01 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
A simple and good looking Ticketing-System for use in an agile team would be a good thing - it's a CRUD-Application with some Reporting and maybe some eye candy.
Why don't you start based on experience to build a tool and share with us.
i guess, that's what i'm going to do - my problem is, that i'm quite new too seaside and have no experience with building "eyecandy". I work at the server-side ... or deal with projectmanagement-stuff
Is anyone interested in creating some OpenSource-Projects for use in a wider range? Those Tools should look "sexy" and should be easy to try (OneClick) or to install as a Service.
Yes we are lot of people interested in that. Just quite busy.
that's a problem. But let me dream: If pharo was organized as a scrum-project and if i was the product owner, i would suspend the current pharo development and instruct the team to work the complete next sprint (e.g. 4 weeks) on an OpenSource-Project for some general use. Imagine what a bunch of pharo developers could create in 4 weeks ... And if companies start to evaluate and use the new software, this would be a big boost for pharo/ smalltalk. It would be a complete new way of pushing an Open Source Project. regards, Stefan
On 9 March 2012 15:11, Stefan Krecher <stefan.krecher@googlemail.com> wrote:
Am 9. März 2012 15:01 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
A simple and good looking Ticketing-System for use in an agile team would be a good thing - it's a CRUD-Application with some Reporting and maybe some eye candy.
Why don't you start based on experience to build a tool and share with us.
i guess, that's what i'm going to do - my problem is, that i'm quite new too seaside and have no experience with building "eyecandy". I work at the server-side ... or deal with projectmanagement-stuff
Is anyone interested in creating some OpenSource-Projects for use in a wider range? Those Tools should look "sexy" and should be easy to try (OneClick) or to install as a Service.
Yes we are lot of people interested in that. Just quite busy.
that's a problem.
But let me dream: If pharo was organized as a scrum-project and if i was the product owner, i would suspend the current pharo development and instruct the team to work the complete next sprint (e.g. 4 weeks) on an OpenSource-Project for some general use. Imagine what a bunch of pharo developers could create in 4 weeks ... And if companies start to evaluate and use the new software, this would be a big boost for pharo/ smalltalk. It would be a complete new way of pushing an Open Source Project.
Um. That makes no sense. Pharo developers should develop Pharo, not something that merely uses Pharo. Or: "Pharo's not being developed fast enough! Let's make the devs work on something else!" frank
Am 9. März 2012 17:24 schrieb Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com>:
Um. That makes no sense. Pharo developers should develop Pharo, not something that merely uses Pharo. Or: "Pharo's not being developed fast enough! Let's make the devs work on something else!"
if one of the main goals of the pharo-team would be something like "increase the popularity of pharo", there would be no problem with pharo-developers working on some project using pharo. And i guess that everybody here would like to see pharo more popular and everybody is working somehow on reaching this goal - but it is no bundled community action with one collective goal. But of course you are right - pharo-devs should develop pharo an make it even better - so other people can write great software with it. regards, Stefan
On 9 March 2012 18:40, Stefan Krecher <stefan.krecher@googlemail.com> wrote:
Am 9. März 2012 17:24 schrieb Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com>:
Um. That makes no sense. Pharo developers should develop Pharo, not something that merely uses Pharo. Or: "Pharo's not being developed fast enough! Let's make the devs work on something else!"
if one of the main goals of the pharo-team would be something like "increase the popularity of pharo", there would be no problem with pharo-developers working on some project using pharo. And i guess that everybody here would like to see pharo more popular and everybody is working somehow on reaching this goal - but it is no bundled community action with one collective goal. But of course you are right - pharo-devs should develop pharo an make it even better - so other people can write great software with it.
Well, IMO, popularity is wrong objective. Look at the real world: we have pop stars like Britney Spears. So, does it makes me my life better? I really doubt it. Or we having a popular stuff like iStuff.. and then we have developers which cannot even use Pharo for iStuff without ultimate permission of Apple.
regards, Stefan
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Hi, Am 9. März 2012 21:46 schrieb Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com>:
Well, IMO, popularity is wrong objective. Look at the real world: we have pop stars like Britney Spears. So, does it makes me my life better? I really doubt it.
Things don't get worse "per se" just because they get popular. And if pharo would be more popular it would make my life better, because maybe i could use it in my dayjob. regards, Stefan
On Mar 9, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Stefan Krecher wrote:
Am 9. März 2012 15:01 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
A simple and good looking Ticketing-System for use in an agile team would be a good thing - it's a CRUD-Application with some Reporting and maybe some eye candy.
Why don't you start based on experience to build a tool and share with us.
i guess, that's what i'm going to do - my problem is, that i'm quite new too seaside and have no experience with building "eyecandy". I work at the server-side ... or deal with projectmanagement-stuff
make sure you have a nice model and try and learn :)
Is anyone interested in creating some OpenSource-Projects for use in a wider range? Those Tools should look "sexy" and should be easy to try (OneClick) or to install as a Service.
Yes we are lot of people interested in that. Just quite busy.
that's a problem.
But let me dream: If pharo was organized as a scrum-project and if i was the product owner, i would suspend the current pharo development and instruct the team to work the complete next sprint (e.g. 4 weeks) on an OpenSource-Project for some general use.
like the compiler, like integration server, like building VM, like creating the next generation UI. You see we are doing that. Now we only have one engineer and he is quite busy. All the rest of the team is not payed to develop Pharo but to teach, publish papers and ideas.
Imagine what a bunch of pharo developers could create in 4 weeks ... And if companies start to evaluate and use the new software, this would be a big boost for pharo/ smalltalk. It would be a complete new way of pushing an Open Source Project.
:)
Hi, Am 11. März 2012 12:08 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
But let me dream: If pharo was organized as a scrum-project and if i was the product owner, i would suspend the current pharo development and instruct the team to work the complete next sprint (e.g. 4 weeks) on an OpenSource-Project for some general use.
like the compiler, like integration server, like building VM, like creating the next generation UI. You see we are doing that. Now we only have one engineer and he is quite busy. All the rest of the team is not payed to develop Pharo but to teach, publish papers and ideas.
the things you mentioned are very usefull - no doubt. But are these projects arguments for trying out pharo or for using it on the next project for a customer? regards, Stefan
I would say publish an environment like iPad/ Android totally out of Pharo and let there be a marketplace for all apps any developer in Pharo can create in 3 days - 90 days and publish it in a Pharo Marketplace that has a commercial interest attached or make it open source/ free thereof. See: http://picasaweb.google.com/skrishnamachari/PharoTabletIDE Once you can grow a profit center out of this environment, all this popularity et als will flow On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Stefan Krecher < stefan.krecher@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Am 11. März 2012 12:08 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
:
But let me dream: If pharo was organized as a scrum-project and if i was the product owner, i would suspend the current pharo development and instruct the team to work the complete next sprint (e.g. 4 weeks) on an OpenSource-Project for some general use.
like the compiler, like integration server, like building VM, like creating the next generation UI. You see we are doing that. Now we only have one engineer and he is quite busy. All the rest of the team is not payed to develop Pharo but to teach, publish papers and ideas.
the things you mentioned are very usefull - no doubt. But are these projects arguments for trying out pharo or for using it on the next project for a customer?
regards, Stefan
On Mar 12, 2012, at 11:01 AM, S Krish wrote:
I would say publish an environment like iPad/ Android totally out of Pharo and let there be a marketplace for all apps any developer in Pharo can create in 3 days - 90 days and publish it in a Pharo Marketplace that has a commercial interest attached or make it open source/ free thereof.
See: http://picasaweb.google.com/skrishnamachari/PharoTabletIDE
Once you can grow a profit center out of this environment, all this popularity et als will flow
Keep pushing what you are doing because this is really cool. Stef
On Mar 12, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Stefan Krecher wrote:
Hi,
Am 11. März 2012 12:08 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
But let me dream: If pharo was organized as a scrum-project and if i was the product owner, i would suspend the current pharo development and instruct the team to work the complete next sprint (e.g. 4 weeks) on an OpenSource-Project for some general use.
like the compiler, like integration server, like building VM, like creating the next generation UI. You see we are doing that. Now we only have one engineer and he is quite busy. All the rest of the team is not payed to develop Pharo but to teach, publish papers and ideas.
the things you mentioned are very usefull - no doubt. But are these projects arguments for trying out pharo or for using it on the next project for a customer?
for making sure that you can build your next cool system. And that we can write our next cool system too. on top of Pharo.
regards, Stefan
participants (5)
-
Frank Shearar -
Igor Stasenko -
S Krish -
Stefan Krecher -
Stéphane Ducasse