Just that you know that we are not happy
Hi if GTdebugger becomes the default debugger it means that our mooc will be already obsolete before getting finished. It means that we will be forced to have separate installers different web pages explaining not to use Pharo 50 but a strange version it means that people will report bugs on a different system And we will have to spent time on that instead of the rest. And we will really thank the Pharo community for its great vision and care about our effort. This is more than 6 months that we are working on it and we have problably yet another month of work. Now just writing this makes me sick. So if the only respect about the work of other people is like that then I will just think a lot about my engagement. If this happens I can tell you that you will have a hard time to ask me to put energy into pharo in the future. Now if this makes you feel easy you can think that I'm tired. This poor stephane is working too much and is overacting. Think that if this helps you to feel good. Really. Now what pissed me off the most is that I'm **TEACHING** to L2 L3 and M1 students This year I was teaching to Prague Annecy Lviv Lome Dakar Saint louis Yaounde and when I say that the student are afraid by the default debugger, they are afraid also by a more complex one. Who among the people deciding to not put this debugger by default can show me that he did one lecture on newbies over the last two years? For real? So be right and go ahead: because you know what is good for the end programmer. I asked five times to understand who need _thisContext and _stakc top and so far I got zero answer. It will help me to take a break from Pharo. Stef PS: I 'm not in the Pharo board anymore because I have to do something else
Since the debugger is improving we will see if we can avoid to produce an obsolete lecture that people will use for 5 years. I should discuss with damien and luc. But it means that it should be stable by monday or at maximum tuesday because we will have to redo the slides. Now luckily we postponed redoing 15 videos we should (re)do to show how to code in Pharo (for the record doing such videos of 5 min takes 3 hours minimum to do, cut and process). Now I would like that we consider that I gave feedback on the icons two years ago and the net result was that during two years nothing changed. So I'm happy to see feedback getting listened because I often got the impression in the past that I should learn how to use tools instead of having tools that work for me (remember the discussion about playground and where we have to explain why the result of a printString should not only be in a popup!) Sometimes I hate that people teachs me how I should work because I often go faster my way. Stef Le 10/1/16 08:37, stepharo a écrit :
Hi
if GTdebugger becomes the default debugger it means that our mooc will be already obsolete before getting finished. It means that we will be forced to have separate installers different web pages explaining not to use Pharo 50 but a strange version it means that people will report bugs on a different system And we will have to spent time on that instead of the rest.
And we will really thank the Pharo community for its great vision and care about our effort. This is more than 6 months that we are working on it and we have problably yet another month of work. Now just writing this makes me sick.
So if the only respect about the work of other people is like that then I will just think a lot about my engagement. If this happens I can tell you that you will have a hard time to ask me to put energy into pharo in the future.
Now if this makes you feel easy you can think that I'm tired. This poor stephane is working too much and is overacting. Think that if this helps you to feel good. Really.
Now what pissed me off the most is that I'm **TEACHING** to L2 L3 and M1 students This year I was teaching to Prague Annecy Lviv Lome Dakar Saint louis Yaounde
and when I say that the student are afraid by the default debugger, they are afraid also by a more complex one. Who among the people deciding to not put this debugger by default can show me that he did one lecture on newbies over the last two years? For real?
So be right and go ahead: because you know what is good for the end programmer. I asked five times to understand who need _thisContext and _stakc top and so far I got zero answer. It will help me to take a break from Pharo.
Stef
PS: I 'm not in the Pharo board anymore because I have to do something else
Hi Stef, Just to tell you that I don't understand the process (if any) where it is decided a new tool to be the new default, how it is evaluated and by whom. But I would love to. Hernán 2016-01-10 6:06 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
Since the debugger is improving we will see if we can avoid to produce an obsolete lecture that people will use for 5 years. I should discuss with damien and luc. But it means that it should be stable by monday or at maximum tuesday because we will have to redo the slides. Now luckily we postponed redoing 15 videos we should (re)do to show how to code in Pharo (for the record doing such videos of 5 min takes 3 hours minimum to do, cut and process).
Now I would like that we consider that I gave feedback on the icons two years ago and the net result was that during two years nothing changed. So I'm happy to see feedback getting listened because I often got the impression in the past that I should learn how to use tools instead of having tools that work for me (remember the discussion about playground and where we have to explain why the result of a printString should not only be in a popup!) Sometimes I hate that people teachs me how I should work because I often go faster my way.
Stef
Le 10/1/16 08:37, stepharo a écrit :
Hi
if GTdebugger becomes the default debugger it means that our mooc will be already obsolete before getting finished. It means that we will be forced to have separate installers different web pages explaining not to use Pharo 50 but a strange version it means that people will report bugs on a different system And we will have to spent time on that instead of the rest.
And we will really thank the Pharo community for its great vision and care about our effort. This is more than 6 months that we are working on it and we have problably yet another month of work. Now just writing this makes me sick.
So if the only respect about the work of other people is like that then I will just think a lot about my engagement. If this happens I can tell you that you will have a hard time to ask me to put energy into pharo in the future.
Now if this makes you feel easy you can think that I'm tired. This poor stephane is working too much and is overacting. Think that if this helps you to feel good. Really.
Now what pissed me off the most is that I'm **TEACHING** to L2 L3 and M1 students This year I was teaching to Prague Annecy Lviv Lome Dakar Saint louis Yaounde
and when I say that the student are afraid by the default debugger, they are afraid also by a more complex one. Who among the people deciding to not put this debugger by default can show me that he did one lecture on newbies over the last two years? For real?
So be right and go ahead: because you know what is good for the end programmer. I asked five times to understand who need _thisContext and _stakc top and so far I got zero answer. It will help me to take a break from Pharo.
Stef
PS: I 'm not in the Pharo board anymore because I have to do something else
Le 10/1/16 10:26, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :
Hi Stef,
Just to tell you that I don't understand the process (if any) where it is decided a new tool to be the new default, how it is evaluated and by whom. But I would love to. The pharo board decided that it was ok. But I never thought it would be the default one. Now I find this process obscure and I'm not part of the board so I do not care.
Stef
On 10 Jan 2016, at 08:37, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
Hi
if GTdebugger becomes the default debugger it means that our mooc will be already obsolete before getting finished. It means that we will be forced to have separate installers different web pages explaining not to use Pharo 50 but a strange version it means that people will report bugs on a different system And we will have to spent time on that instead of the rest.
And we will really thank the Pharo community for its great vision and care about our effort. This is more than 6 months that we are working on it and we have problably yet another month of work. Now just writing this makes me sick.
So if the only respect about the work of other people is like that then I will just think a lot about my engagement. If this happens I can tell you that you will have a hard time to ask me to put energy into pharo in the future.
Now if this makes you feel easy you can think that I'm tired. This poor stephane is working too much and is overacting. Think that if this helps you to feel good. Really.
Now what pissed me off the most is that I'm **TEACHING** to L2 L3 and M1 students This year I was teaching to Prague Annecy Lviv Lome Dakar Saint louis Yaounde
and when I say that the student are afraid by the default debugger, they are afraid also by a more complex one. Who among the people deciding to not put this debugger by default can show me that he did one lecture on newbies over the last two years? For real?
So be right and go ahead: because you know what is good for the end programmer. I asked five times to understand who need _thisContext and _stakc top and so far I got zero answer. It will help me to take a break from Pharo.
I use both thisContext and stackTop regularly. thisContext maybe once a wee, stackTop probably multiple times a day.
Stef
PS: I 'm not in the Pharo board anymore because I have to do something else
Stack top is really usefull because it contains the result of last expression evaluation. Since we took the habit of composing message sends without decomposing into temporary variables, it avoid selecting sub-expression and re-evaluating subparts, or entering into each message to gain finer understanding... For thisContext, I don't really see the interest, but maybe someone will find a use case... 2016-01-10 18:55 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
I use both thisContext and stackTop regularly. thisContext maybe once a
wee, stackTop probably multiple times a day.
So explain to me how?
Stef
On 10 Jan 2016, at 19:01, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com> wrote:
Stack top is really usefull because it contains the result of last expression evaluation. Since we took the habit of composing message sends without decomposing into temporary variables, it avoid selecting sub-expression and re-evaluating subparts, or entering into each message to gain finer understanding...
For thisContext, I don't really see the interest, but maybe someone will find a use caseâ¦
thisContext is useful if you want to inspect the sender chain yourself e.g. when developing tools like the debugger *with* the debugger. Cheers, Max
2016-01-10 18:55 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo@free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>:
I use both thisContext and stackTop regularly. thisContext maybe once a wee, stackTop probably multiple times a day.
So explain to me how?
Stef
Stack top is really usefull because it contains the result of last expression evaluation. Since we took the habit of composing message sends without decomposing into temporary variables, it avoid selecting sub-expression and re-evaluating subparts, or entering into each message to gain finer understanding...
ah ok I see. Now the name is not really good
For thisContext, I don't really see the interest, but maybe someone will find a use case...
2016-01-10 18:55 GMT+01:00 stepharo <stepharo@free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>:
I use both thisContext and stackTop regularly. thisContext maybe once a wee, stackTop probably multiple times a day.
So explain to me how?
Stef
participants (4)
-
Hernán Morales Durand -
Max Leske -
Nicolas Cellier -
stepharo