[Pharo-project] Pharo for iOS
What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications? -- Dennis Schetinin
I have Pharo running on my ipad. I just followed instruction of Bert and it works like a charm. This is not accesible via itune however, but, it is perfectly okay to have pharo applications on it. John has a couple of them Alexandre On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications?
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
2011/9/22 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>
I have Pharo running on my ipad. I just followed instruction of Bert and it works like a charm. This is not accesible via itune however, but, it is perfectly okay to have pharo applications on it.
Yea, I know it works. But the question is how good? I remember there were some issues with "clicking"? What about gestures? Will Pharo apps feel "natural" on iPad/iPhone? etc, etc⦠And in general, is it reasonable to push Smalltalk development for this platform now, or is it better to wait and start from "native" programming right now?
John has a couple of them
Do you mean John McIntosh and his SmallWiki and Fractions Calculator? It looks like he is not using Smalltalk for his recent apps, though I'm possilbly mistaken. But if so, it's interesting why? :)
Alexandre
On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications?
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Dennis Schetinin
Yea, I know it works. But the question is how good? I remember there were some issues with "clicking"? What about gestures? Will Pharo apps feel "natural" on iPad/iPhone? etc, etc⦠And in general, is it reasonable to push Smalltalk development for this platform now, or is it better to wait and start from "native" programming right now?
The interface is clearly slow. Using Pharo on iphone/ipad is still experimental.
Do you mean John McIntosh and his SmallWiki and Fractions Calculator?
Yes. Alexandre
On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications?
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Hi, yes... but the new OpenGL canvas can help here ('m guessing) the StackVM can help too... some other tweaks can be implemented (yes, yes... time is tyrant :) ) cheers, Esteban El 22/09/2011, a las 10:30a.m., Alexandre Bergel escribió:
Yea, I know it works. But the question is how good? I remember there were some issues with "clicking"? What about gestures? Will Pharo apps feel "natural" on iPad/iPhone? etc, etc⦠And in general, is it reasonable to push Smalltalk development for this platform now, or is it better to wait and start from "native" programming right now?
The interface is clearly slow. Using Pharo on iphone/ipad is still experimental.
Do you mean John McIntosh and his SmallWiki and Fractions Calculator?
Yes.
Alexandre
On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications?
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
sweet! where can I find instructions on how to do this too? On Sep 22, 2011, at 4:37 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
I have Pharo running on my ipad. I just followed instruction of Bert and it works like a charm. This is not accesible via itune however, but, it is perfectly okay to have pharo applications on it. John has a couple of them
Alexandre
On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications?
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Actually, you have to install DrGeo. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9643745/DrGeo/DrGeoTestBF.html You can then use whatever image you wish instead, by just dragging and dropping it from your desktop to iTunes. Alexandre On 23 Sep 2011, at 13:41, Pat Maddox wrote:
sweet! where can I find instructions on how to do this too?
On Sep 22, 2011, at 4:37 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
I have Pharo running on my ipad. I just followed instruction of Bert and it works like a charm. This is not accesible via itune however, but, it is perfectly okay to have pharo applications on it. John has a couple of them
Alexandre
On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications?
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Well this is an old note, but I thought I'd answer it. You can download, install and run the Scratch.app https://github.com/johnmci/Scratch.app.for.iOS This is not the closure VM, but does have the Open/GL canvas, or you can choose to use the alternate canvas which is based on CALayers. Now about building apps on iOS. You can choose to either (a) run the VM and show the squeak desktop which I did for Blob and Swirl, these being experimental early toys mostly to track the stability of the VM as Apple sends developers crash reports if there are enough generated. (b) run the VM and show a Cocoa UI, do all work via Smalltalk, Both the Fractions Calculators and WIkiServers do that. This is hard because getting a walk back means setting up VNC so you can control things, and using proxy and callbacks to do work in Smalltalk code is hard to debug and code, plus you need to pass in all these constants to Alien or FFI which you gleam from the apple header files. Bad things happen when you deadlock between the VM and iOS callbacks. (c) run a cocoa app and use the VM as a subprocess to be the Model, where the View and Controller is all Objective-C. Which is mostly how the Scratch.app is designed. We give taps, keyboard, load this project, and stop/go to the VM as a result of interacting with cocoa controls. The VM in turn mostly provides audio and frame updates. Oh and I"m not sure about the JIT stuff, pre 3.2 making a virtual memory page executable was not allowed by non-root apps. But in post 3.2 it seems they added some extra mmap keywords #define PROT_EXEC 0x04 /* [MC2] pages can be executed */ #define MAP_JIT 0x0800 /* Allocate a region that will be used for JIT purposes */ Obviously someone could try it... On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Pat Maddox <patmaddox@me.com> wrote:
sweet! where can I find instructions on how to do this too?
On Sep 22, 2011, at 4:37 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
I have Pharo running on my ipad. I just followed instruction of Bert and it works like a charm. This is not accesible via itune however, but, it is perfectly okay to have pharo applications on it. John has a couple of them
Alexandre
On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications?
-- Dennis Schetinin
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================
participants (5)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Dennis Schetinin -
Esteban Lorenzano -
John McIntosh -
Pat Maddox