<not trolling, genuinely curious> When SimpleMorphic was released, the problem was that we didnât know how to integrate it into our existing Morphic. Also, the problem with starting with CUISâs Morphic was IIRC that it didnât properly handle internationalization. Now that weâre heading toward a total replacement anyway, why start from scratch when there are these projects, Morphic 3, and who-knows-what-else already available? </not trolling, genuinely curious> - S
On 4/8/14 21:06, Sean DeNigris wrote:
<not trolling, genuinely curious> When SimpleMorphic was released, the problem was that we didnât know how to integrate it into our existing Morphic. Also, the problem with starting with CUISâs Morphic was IIRC that it didnât properly handle internationalization. Now that weâre heading toward a total replacement anyway, why start from scratch when there are these projects, Morphic 3, and who-knows-what-else already available? </not trolling, genuinely curious>
Sean (alain is on vacation without computer) So I will try to reply. First did you look at SimpleMorphic? We did :) ESUG even paid for it while originally it was to support Morphic 3. Second, we read Cuis code. Third Alain did Miro. So he accumulated experience. Four Bloc is clean local coordinates no global hand ActiveHand, World. one nice layout (based on anchor work of igor) no fullbounds (you cannot draw outside a morph. Period!) fully (yes fully pluggable halo - they are packaged in a different optional package) Now it is a long way to get something working for real. So why bloc, we started to clean morphic with alain and we hit a wall. Morphic is so heavy that trying to move inside is really difficult. Now there is a risk that alain does not deliver so we should - look at what he is doing - we try to document the classes - I'm trying to move some cleans/ideas from bloc to Morphic (introducing Margin, cleaning layoutFrame is a way to improve) - Since bloc runs inside morphic, cleaning morphic reduces the morphic behavior that creeps in Bloc Here are some ideas to help - for example, if you want to make bloc use Athens transformation - write more tests - write stupid examples - I'm cleaning menumorph and rewriting a menuMorph for Morphic with the hope that we can blocify the code so that I can propose some simple MenuMorph to Bloc. I'm busy with project proposal writing and other duties but if you want you can join. - I'm doing the same with theme and basic widgets. - Can we do a simple button in Bloc? - clean the one we have in Morphic Alain would like to use Athens for the rendering of Bloc elements .... so this is another nice project to help. Stef
Hello, I'm just back from holidays. To explain a bit more, Bloc is not done from scratch. For now, one can consider Bloc as a fork of the Morph class and few other system levels classes as HandMorph, WorldMorph ... They are progressively rewritten and simplified (we removed all HandMorph cache optimizations as an example). The good news is that, so far, morphic ui are still running ok within a Bloc world and you can dynamically switch from the morphic world to bloc worlds. Cheers Alain On 4 août 2014, at 21:28, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
On 4/8/14 21:06, Sean DeNigris wrote:
<not trolling, genuinely curious> When SimpleMorphic was released, the problem was that we didnât know how to integrate it into our existing Morphic. Also, the problem with starting with CUISâs Morphic was IIRC that it didnât properly handle internationalization. Now that weâre heading toward a total replacement anyway, why start from scratch when there are these projects, Morphic 3, and who-knows-what-else already available? </not trolling, genuinely curious>
Sean
(alain is on vacation without computer) So I will try to reply.
First did you look at SimpleMorphic? We did :) ESUG even paid for it while originally it was to support Morphic 3.
Second, we read Cuis code.
Third Alain did Miro. So he accumulated experience.
Four Bloc is clean local coordinates no global hand ActiveHand, World. one nice layout (based on anchor work of igor) no fullbounds (you cannot draw outside a morph. Period!) fully (yes fully pluggable halo - they are packaged in a different optional package)
Now it is a long way to get something working for real. So why bloc, we started to clean morphic with alain and we hit a wall. Morphic is so heavy that trying to move inside is really difficult. Now there is a risk that alain does not deliver so we should - look at what he is doing - we try to document the classes - I'm trying to move some cleans/ideas from bloc to Morphic (introducing Margin, cleaning layoutFrame is a way to improve) - Since bloc runs inside morphic, cleaning morphic reduces the morphic behavior that creeps in Bloc
Here are some ideas to help - for example, if you want to make bloc use Athens transformation - write more tests - write stupid examples
- I'm cleaning menumorph and rewriting a menuMorph for Morphic with the hope that we can blocify the code so that I can propose some simple MenuMorph to Bloc. I'm busy with project proposal writing and other duties but if you want you can join.
- I'm doing the same with theme and basic widgets. - Can we do a simple button in Bloc? - clean the one we have in Morphic
Alain would like to use Athens for the rendering of Bloc elements .... so this is another nice project to help.
Stef
Alain Plantec-3 wrote
one can consider Bloc as a fork of the Morph class
Ah, good to know. Thanks, Alain :) I thought about it more and my concern is less about the approach, and more that we have what I consider to be the most important items on our IU Experience agenda - Tx and Bloc - totally reliant on two (brilliant, talented...) programmers while the rest of the community hopes and waits. In no way to I lack appreciation for your and Igor's efforts, but this does not seem like a robust or efficient use of our manpower... So, I guess what I'm really asking for both projects is - how can we help? ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-Bloc-tp4771757p4773711.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
stepharo wrote
- look at what he is doing - we try to document the classes ...
How do I start playing with Bloc? After loading the development version into Pharo 3.0 and doing "BlMorphToTestMouseEnterLeave new openInWorld" I get "MessageNotUnderstood: receiver of "activeWorld" is nil" ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-Bloc-tp4771757p4778711.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 18 sept. 2014, at 04:44, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
stepharo wrote
- look at what he is doing - we try to document the classes ...
How do I start playing with Bloc? After loading the development version into Pharo 3.0 and doing "BlMorphToTestMouseEnterLeave new openInWorld" I get "MessageNotUnderstood: receiver of "activeWorld" is nil"
Hi Sean, Notice that you must run Bloc (be in a Bloc world) before you can run any of the bloc examples. You can run Morphic within Bloc but not Bloc examples within a Morphic world. first make sure that you have loaded the 4 Bloc-* packages. then, (an issue that I must dig) if you image is a fresh one, make sure the author full name is well initialized with: Author requestFullName then you are ready to run a Bloc world: world menu>Bloc>New Bloc space world menu>Bloc>Switch to Bloc space... choose 'Bloc-1' Normally, you should switch to a new world (with a random background color). The world menu is opened with the right mouse click (not the left one as in Morphic). You can come back to Morphic by using world menu>Bloc>Switch to Bloc space... Then you can try examples: see class side of BlMorphWithLayout, BlPluggableEventListener, BlScheduledProcessingQueue you can also try BlUniverse>>moveBlBigPasteUp (and compare it to BlUniverse>>moveBigPasteUp but within the Morphic world). the same for BlMorphWithLayout>>moveMorphWithTableLayoutAnd10000Children versus BlMorphWithLayout>>moveMorphWithTableLayoutAnd10000Children_morphic under Morphic. Cheers Alain
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-Bloc-tp4771757p4778711.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Alain Plantec-3 wrote
then you are ready to run a Bloc world: world menu>Bloc>New Bloc space world menu>Bloc>Switch to Bloc space... choose 'Bloc-1'
I loaded via the config and then the steps above seemed to freeze the image. Mac w. #30856. Eventually a ton of MNU ThreadSafeTranscript>>stepGlobal windows appeared over a purple background. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-Bloc-tp4771757p4778746.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 18 Sep 2014, at 14:37, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Alain Plantec-3 wrote
then you are ready to run a Bloc world: world menu>Bloc>New Bloc space world menu>Bloc>Switch to Bloc space... choose 'Bloc-1'
I loaded via the config and then the steps above seemed to freeze the image. Mac w. #30856. Eventually a ton of MNU ThreadSafeTranscript>>stepGlobal windows appeared over a purple background.
I guess the configuration is not up-to-date. can you try by directly load the last version of the packages with monticello ? Alain
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-Bloc-tp4771757p4778746.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 18 Sep 2014, at 15:40, Alain Plantec <alain.plantec@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 18 Sep 2014, at 14:37, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Alain Plantec-3 wrote
then you are ready to run a Bloc world: world menu>Bloc>New Bloc space world menu>Bloc>Switch to Bloc space... choose 'Bloc-1'
I loaded via the config and then the steps above seemed to freeze the image. Mac w. #30856. Eventually a ton of MNU ThreadSafeTranscript>>stepGlobal windows appeared over a purple background.
ahh, ok, this is related to the Transcript updating fixe introduced in 4.0. So try with a 4.0 image. Cheers Alain
I guess the configuration is not up-to-date. can you try by directly load the last version of the packages with monticello ? Alain
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-Bloc-tp4771757p4778746.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (4)
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Alain Plantec -
Sean DeNigris -
Sean P. DeNigris
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stepharo