Le 30/1/15 11:20, kilon alios a écrit :

Do you want to hear the irony , I only use Workspace to create a window group to act as a container for Playgrounds :D D

Hi, The philosophy in the GT team is not to remove things from the existing environment, but to start from scratch and add the things that fit. This is the only way to get to completely new solutions. This is one of those interesting ideas that just did not fit in the current form. Cheers, Doru On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:

It's still a regular window, so it's possible, the only difference is missing button for it, which according to Tudor was removed purposefully.

http://forum.world.st/GT-Playground-Inspect-window-menu-tp4782020p4782044.ht...

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 12:10 PM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:

...

Le 30/1/15 11:20, kilon alios a écrit :

...

Do you want to hear the irony , I only use Workspace to create a window group to act as a container for Playgrounds :D

D

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Hi, On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:

...

Peter Uhnák It's still a regular window, so it's possible, the only difference is missing button for it, which according to Tudor was removed purposefully.

http://forum.world.st/GT-Playground-Inspect-window-menu-tp4782020p4782044.ht...

Looks like I missed this thread. Tudor comment is a little bit funny there: "by default in Morphic every window gets the generic menu that nobody really uses,". When he does not use it it does not mean that all other do not use it ;)

You are now talking about exactly one item out of 10. When was the last time you used the Close menu entry from that menu? If we do not go through this process we will find out in 10 years that we have the same solutions around us. I know it can be painful but the investment is worth it. I like when we make progress - but we should also take care not to

constantly break others flow.

Well. It is hard to come with new things by doing exactly the same things as yesterday.

I also currently circumvent the missing functionality the same way as Kilon describes: by opening an old workspace first, switching to grouping and dragging the playgrounds there.

So, that means that you do prefer the Playground after all :)

Please can we have this grouping back somehow. I dont care about the window menu itself but the grouping avoids the windows hell and we should get this back.

In the long term I envision that I can drag windows (like playgrounds or Nautilus) onto each other and when I do this long enough they will group automagically.

That might be a solution, but what we have now is not such a solution. Please give us time. Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Hi Doru,

You are now talking about exactly one item out of 10. When was the last time you used the Close menu entry from that menu?

As I said in my mail - I'm more keen on getting the feature back than getting back this menu.

If we do not go through this process we will find out in 10 years that we have the same solutions around us. I know it can be painful but the investment is worth it.

Will "we be better" when we remove a windows menu because we usually use keyboard shortcuts to close windows? I doubt it. Where do you want to put the info what can be done with the window? Look at all the regular computer window based UI system: they still have such a menu. Will we really break with these expectations? For sure we could slim down and reduce it because we do not like it. But in regular OS systems these contain textual menu infos what you can do and to my knowledge this is also used by accessibility tools like screen readers, ...  

Well. It is hard to come with new things by doing exactly the same things as yesterday.

Agree with that - but other window manager designers where not too bad in thinking about such issues.  

So, that means that you do prefer the Playground after all :)

Yes. Do do not misunderstand my posts. I enjoy these new tools - still I ask you questions like "why do I click on Workspace and get a Playground" or "why is grouping not possible anymore"? To me the first one is simply not intuitive and the other one a break in my flow.

That might be a solution, but what we have now is not such a solution. Please give us time.

Yes - maybe we must be more patient. I understand that sometimes one has to go 1 step backward to move 2 steps forward :) Bye T.

I know about the feature, but we did not yet find a proper solution for it. The current default solution does not make for a good user experience: I have to click an obscure menu item just to make the window be a drop target and I get no visual feedback of what can be dropped on it. The issue of many windows is a significant problem that deserves a closer attention. I am sure it will take a while, though. Cheers, Doru On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:11 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:

Another features that nobody knows (even us).

Stef

Le 29/1/15 18:51, Torsten Bergmann a écrit :

Previous (and still included) Workspace, Transcript and Nautilus

...

provide Window grouping by selecting "Create window group" from the window menu and then dragging two windows onto each other. They are grouped together in one single window then and each one gets a tab.

Looks like Playground does not support this feature yet - so currently I end up with many many windows which for me is a step backwards compared to working with workspaces in Pharo 3.0

What is necessary to provide this for the Playground so we have a common behavior for all the tools and a cleaner desktop?

Thanks T.

-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

personally I dont even understand why one would not want tabs, especially in such a heavy window orientated enviroment like Pharo. Sure if I better solution existed yes, but even in MacOS while mission control existed for quite some time (offers a bird eye view of opened windows) still Apple was forced to implement tabs even inside Finder. Tabs are actually a standard feature for all applications nowdays and is strange that Pharo has hidden it inside menus. I completely agree with you that drag and drop or at least some other easy to use solution would be ideal. On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:

maybe it should just be enabled permanently? defaulting to showing a tab when only one window is present - just the same as you get with a web browser. I think this paradigm is common enough with web browsers today being able to drag/drop tabs is a common enough that this will be discoverable for most people.

Perhaps a preference to turn it off as a backup for those that don't like it?

btw,

cheers -ben

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 8:48 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:

...

I know about the feature, but we did not yet find a proper solution for it.

The current default solution does not make for a good user experience: I have to click an obscure menu item just to make the window be a drop target and I get no visual feedback of what can be dropped on it. The issue of many windows is a significant problem that deserves a closer attention.

I am sure it will take a while, though.

Cheers, Doru

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:11 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:

...

Another features that nobody knows (even us).

Stef

Le 29/1/15 18:51, Torsten Bergmann a écrit :

Previous (and still included) Workspace, Transcript and Nautilus

...

provide Window grouping by selecting "Create window group" from the window menu and then dragging two windows onto each other. They are grouped together in one single window then and each one gets a tab.

Looks like Playground does not support this feature yet - so currently I end up with many many windows which for me is a step backwards compared to working with workspaces in Pharo 3.0

What is necessary to provide this for the Playground so we have a common behavior for all the tools and a cleaner desktop?

Thanks T.

-- www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"