[Pharo-project] Crypt ... Libraries ...
https, md5, DES, AES .... i really wonder, why you can't decide to plugin libcrypt ....? In C programming language we have all, we can imagine. So why reinvent the wheel by rewriting complex code in smalltalk? Why not including a small webserver in C language as plugin? Code is there. Same with pdf libs - why not using Display PDF in C code with e.g. PANGO, like Apple did with Mac OS X? No, instead of doing so, MORPHIC is still there, based on C-LANG blitter code. In Morphic, i noticed long time ago, there existed the possibility to print every screen object, writing it directly to file, sending it to the printer afterwards. It never worked for me, i tried in 3.6, 3.8, 3.9. Being abble to print contents out of the box in PDF format, the successor of PS, really would be nice ... Dear Squeak, Smalltalk, Pharo - developers - Do you still have the overview or are you lost in Smalltalk details? cheers, Guido Stepken
Stepken: I think that this is a good idea, but.... Pharo developers are few and limited. They are trying to do all of their best on Pharo. We know this an important package but perhaps they have more important things to do. Pharo is not even in a beta of first milestone. This can be planned in a future milestone. Porting the actual cryptography package to Pharo perhaps is much easier than wrap an entire library. Any code is welcome :) As I said in the other thread about this, I think this is a perfect project for ESUG SummerTalk. It has the Pharo philosofy. I mean, if Pharo want to be an opensource smalltalk to create real enterprise applications, then cryptography package is needed. Cheers, Mariano On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 8:04 PM, stepken <stepken@web.de> wrote:
https, md5, DES, AES .... i really wonder, why you can't decide to plugin libcrypt ....?
In C programming language we have all, we can imagine. So why reinvent the wheel by rewriting complex code in smalltalk?
Why not including a small webserver in C language as plugin? Code is there.
Same with pdf libs - why not using Display PDF in C code with e.g. PANGO, like Apple did with Mac OS X?
No, instead of doing so, MORPHIC is still there, based on C-LANG blitter code.
In Morphic, i noticed long time ago, there existed the possibility to print every screen object, writing it directly to file, sending it to the printer afterwards. It never worked for me, i tried in 3.6, 3.8, 3.9.
Being abble to print contents out of the box in PDF format, the successor of PS, really would be nice ...
Dear Squeak, Smalltalk, Pharo - developers - Do you still have the overview or are you lost in Smalltalk details?
cheers, Guido Stepken
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
I am not in the position to discuss but I think the pharo communnity shows strong leadership so is feasibe to have a core team focused on the milestones and seeveral teams focused on frameworks and applications -----Mensaje original----- De: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr]En nombre de stepken Enviado el: Lunes, 25 de Mayo de 2009 08:05 p.m. Para: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Asunto: [Pharo-project] Crypt ... Libraries ... https, md5, DES, AES .... i really wonder, why you can't decide to plugin libcrypt ....? In C programming language we have all, we can imagine. So why reinvent the wheel by rewriting complex code in smalltalk? Why not including a small webserver in C language as plugin? Code is there. Same with pdf libs - why not using Display PDF in C code with e.g. PANGO, like Apple did with Mac OS X? No, instead of doing so, MORPHIC is still there, based on C-LANG blitter code. In Morphic, i noticed long time ago, there existed the possibility to print every screen object, writing it directly to file, sending it to the printer afterwards. It never worked for me, i tried in 3.6, 3.8, 3.9. Being abble to print contents out of the box in PDF format, the successor of PS, really would be nice ... Dear Squeak, Smalltalk, Pharo - developers - Do you still have the overview or are you lost in Smalltalk details? cheers, Guido Stepken _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 30/04/2009 05:53 p.m.
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Carlos Crosetti <carlos@mostar.com.ar> wrote:
I am not in the position to discuss but I think the pharo communnity shows strong leadership so is feasibe to have a core team focused on the milestones and seeveral teams focused on frameworks and applications
I think that after the 1.0 milestone, the core team should decide about the infrastructure for applications & frameworks. Right now in Squeak, there is too much way to install software : SqueakMap, SqueakSource, Universes, changesets, sar ... In Ruby, there is just one way to package software : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RubyGems much more simpler for beginners. -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] http://doesnotunderstand.org/
I think that after the 1.0 milestone, the core team should decide about the infrastructure for applications & frameworks. Right now in Squeak, there is too much way to install software : SqueakMap, SqueakSource, Universes, changesets, sar ... In Ruby, there is just one way to package software : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RubyGems much more simpler for beginners.
yeap!
Of course using C libraries is an interesting alternative now somebody has to do it written in C = maintain in C then we end up building walls around us, I like the idea that I can learn something by reading and putting a break point in the code. So if the crypto is working in Squeak I suggest to keep it. Igor I would not rewrite it. On May 26, 2009, at 1:04 AM, stepken wrote:
https, md5, DES, AES .... i really wonder, why you can't decide to plugin libcrypt ....?
In C programming language we have all, we can imagine. So why reinvent the wheel by rewriting complex code in smalltalk?
Why not including a small webserver in C language as plugin? Code is there.
Same with pdf libs - why not using Display PDF in C code with e.g. PANGO, like Apple did with Mac OS X?
No, instead of doing so, MORPHIC is still there, based on C-LANG blitter code.
In Morphic, i noticed long time ago, there existed the possibility to print every screen object, writing it directly to file, sending it to the printer afterwards. It never worked for me, i tried in 3.6, 3.8, 3.9.
Being abble to print contents out of the box in PDF format, the successor of PS, really would be nice ...
Dear Squeak, Smalltalk, Pharo - developers - Do you still have the overview or are you lost in Smalltalk details?
cheers, Guido Stepken
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
2009/5/26 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Of course using C libraries is an interesting alternative now     somebody has to do it     written in C = maintain in C     then we end up building walls around us,     I like the idea that I can learn something by reading and putting a break point in the code.
So if the crypto is working in Squeak I suggest to keep it. Igor I would not rewrite it.
I suggest , that if its easy to dissect things like md5 hash function, and other stuff which is not really falls in cryptography category (and therefore not requires a paperwork mess under US laws) then you can include it in image. Then rest parts can be loaded separately by those who need more. MD5 is just a hash function, no need to worry about, that it contains/related to encryption technology. There are a plenty of things which could use it (like computing checksums for compression).
On May 26, 2009, at 1:04 AM, stepken wrote:
https, md5, DES, AES .... i really wonder, why you can't decide to plugin libcrypt ....?
In C programming language we have all, we can imagine. So why reinvent the wheel by rewriting complex code in smalltalk?
Why not including a small webserver in C language as plugin? Code is there.
Same with pdf libs - why not using Display PDF in C code with e.g. PANGO, like Apple did with Mac OS X?
No, instead of doing so, MORPHIC is still there, based on C-LANG blitter code.
In Morphic, i noticed long time ago, there existed the possibility to print every screen object, writing it directly to file, sending it to the printer afterwards. It never worked for me, i tried in 3.6, 3.8, 3.9.
Being abble to print contents out of the box in PDF format, the successor of PS, really would be nice ...
Dear Squeak, Smalltalk, Pharo - developers - Do you still have the overview or are you lost in Smalltalk details?
cheers, Guido Stepken
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Hi! stepken wrote:
https, md5, DES, AES .... i really wonder, why you can't decide to plugin libcrypt ....? In C programming language we have all, we can imagine. So why reinvent the wheel by rewriting complex code in smalltalk?
It is all about "open source itches". The crypto guys wanted to implement crypto techniques, not typically because they wanted to *use* them but probably because they wanted to *implement* them.
Why not including a small webserver in C language as plugin? Code is there.
In that particular case I would rather favor say SimpleCGI: http://map.squeak.org/packagebyname/blackfoot It already works but of course would need a little bit of love for industrial strength integration with Seaside. It all comes down to *time*. Do you have time to spare? :)
Same with pdf libs - why not using Display PDF in C code with e.g. PANGO, like Apple did with Mac OS X?
More and more external libs are hooked up to Squeak, generally speaking. At the same time - Squeak runs bit identical in a magnitude of platforms and each time you depend on an external lib you end up depending on *its* portability.
No, instead of doing so, MORPHIC is still there, based on C-LANG blitter code.
Morphic is what it is. But it works and it serves a UI base that all Squeaks can share. It is not easily replaced over night with something else. There is an insight here that it can take years to gain: The Squeak environment (tools, Morphic etc) that we "live in" or work in or whatever - it needs to be comfortable enough to suit a large percentage of Squeakers. If it is not - people don't "live there" and if they don't live there noone will help out improving it. Thus, it is very hard to replace Morphic because you need something that works almost equally well (=comfortable enough) in order to gain a population in your new UI. If you do not gain a population - you do not get any help in evolving it, and you fail because it takes lots of man power. This effect has been seen over and over, and over. :)
Dear Squeak, Smalltalk, Pharo - developers - Do you still have the overview or are you lost in Smalltalk details?
Good question of course, we all try our best. Also, note that we all have different goals. regards, Göran
On 25-May-09, at 4:04 PM, stepken wrote:
https, md5, DES, AES .... i really wonder, why you can't decide to plugin libcrypt ....?
In C programming language we have all, we can imagine. So why reinvent the wheel by rewriting complex code in smalltalk?
The problem with providing plugins is that it's very non-portable. Issues: (a) The number of people who write and maintain plugins for Squeak is likely countable on a pair of hands. (b) For Sophie we had to statically link FreeType into Sophie because Apple over different operating systems versions provided a multiple selection of broken freetype versions. Witness the hassles people have installing a product on linux because of incompatible libraries. (c) Does that plugin work with os-x 10.2 on a powerpc machine? Gee why not? Who knows? Where is that powerPC 10.2 test machine? Obviously if the code is all in smalltalk the above is not a problem, and you can fix it, If all in FFI then less of a problem and maybe you still can fix it. If a plugin, then I doubt you'll fix it. Certainly we don't expect to take *everything* and rewrite in Smalltalk, witness the freetype and curl work as an example, and all of this doesn't touch on license insanity and wondering if that library is *safe* to use. -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
participants (8)
-
Carlos Crosetti -
Göran Krampe -
Igor Stasenko -
John M McIntosh -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Serge Stinckwich -
stepken -
Stéphane Ducasse