[Pharo-project] Fwd: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use))
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com> Date: 2009/12/27 Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use)) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org> I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving into trunk. There are three mcz updates:  Files-dtl.62  System-dtl.205  Kernel-dtl.347 Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above. This will require a configuration map update when the changes are moved to trunk. The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray, the procedure is as follows:  1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install'  2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer   StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray. Thanks, Dave -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Note, the change sets for this update are also on Mantis http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5205 along with discussion of other approaches to the problem. These changes are now in Squeak trunk. Dave On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:19:46PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com> Date: 2009/12/27 Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use)) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>
I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving into trunk.
There are three mcz updates: ??Files-dtl.62 ??System-dtl.205 ??Kernel-dtl.347
Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above. This will require a configuration map update when the changes are moved to trunk.
The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray, the procedure is as follows:
??1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install' ??2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer ?? ??StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.
Thanks, Dave
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Thanks David. I will look at the methodTrailer fixes soon. Now my knowledge is limited in this area and I would prefer to have marcus have a look. I will at least check the code and see if it looks ok. Stef On Dec 27, 2009, at 8:25 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:
Note, the change sets for this update are also on Mantis http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5205 along with discussion of other approaches to the problem.
These changes are now in Squeak trunk.
Dave
On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:19:46PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com> Date: 2009/12/27 Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use)) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>
I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving into trunk.
There are three mcz updates: ??Files-dtl.62 ??System-dtl.205 ??Kernel-dtl.347
Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above. This will require a configuration map update when the changes are moved to trunk.
The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray, the procedure is as follows:
??1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install' ??2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer ?? ??StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.
Thanks, Dave
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
FYI Marcus provided a solution to this problem back in 2006, see http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=4369 (but the original author may be Klaus Witzel). So Marcus will understand the issue well :) Dave On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:20:20PM +0100, St?phane Ducasse wrote:
Thanks David. I will look at the methodTrailer fixes soon. Now my knowledge is limited in this area and I would prefer to have marcus have a look. I will at least check the code and see if it looks ok.
Stef
On Dec 27, 2009, at 8:25 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:
Note, the change sets for this update are also on Mantis http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5205 along with discussion of other approaches to the problem.
These changes are now in Squeak trunk.
Dave
On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:19:46PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com> Date: 2009/12/27 Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use)) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>
I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving into trunk.
There are three mcz updates: ??Files-dtl.62 ??System-dtl.205 ??Kernel-dtl.347
Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above. This will require a configuration map update when the changes are moved to trunk.
The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray, the procedure is as follows:
??1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install' ??2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer ?? ??StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.
Thanks, Dave
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Yes :) Marcus would like to have code inside the image... since a couple of years :) Stef On Dec 27, 2009, at 11:32 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:
FYI Marcus provided a solution to this problem back in 2006, see http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=4369 (but the original author may be Klaus Witzel). So Marcus will understand the issue well :)
Dave
On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:20:20PM +0100, St?phane Ducasse wrote:
Thanks David. I will look at the methodTrailer fixes soon. Now my knowledge is limited in this area and I would prefer to have marcus have a look. I will at least check the code and see if it looks ok.
Stef
On Dec 27, 2009, at 8:25 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:
Note, the change sets for this update are also on Mantis http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=5205 along with discussion of other approaches to the problem.
These changes are now in Squeak trunk.
Dave
On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 09:19:46PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com> Date: 2009/12/27 Subject: Re: 2GB changes file and a pony (was: [squeak-dev] ALL CLEAR (Re: CompiledMethodTrailers ready for use)) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>
I have put the updates for large changes and sources files into the inbox. I would appreciate if someone can review this before moving into trunk.
There are three mcz updates: ??Files-dtl.62 ??System-dtl.205 ??Kernel-dtl.347
Important: The changes *must* be loaded in the order listed above. This will require a configuration map update when the changes are moved to trunk.
The use of ExpandedSourceFileArray takes effect after the first image restart. To change back to using the StandardSourceFileArray, the procedure is as follows:
??1) Evaluate 'StandardSourceFileArray install' ??2) Edit SourceFileArray class>>concreteClass to answer ?? ??StandardSourceFileArray rather than ExpandedSourceFileArray.
Thanks, Dave
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Yes :)
Marcus would like to have code inside the image... since a couple of years :)
yes... Klaus Witzel worked on this some years ago (I think even after I told him that this would be high on my list... Klaus used to live in Bern and visited the Squeak meeting there regularly.) This did not make it into 3.9... we ran a bit out of steam at the end :-) Maybe I should explain that I did 3.9 in parallel to my PhD work. Unpayed, with no hidden side agenda other than the realization that one can't invent the future if one can not even fix a typo in a comment. I think one could critisize that I just integrated other peoples fixes... but that had multiple reasons: 1) Focus was on the PhD.... and doing all these boring things that are a lot of work that one needs to do to have a future in Research. 2) Of what use is it to do some cool enancement for Squeak if chances of integration are zero? I never understood the brave people who did sent patch after patch with almost nothing ending up in the system. 3) Integrating is far less trivial than people might think. Integrating is especially difficult in a system "with a history" like Squeak. But in the end, I think we did a good job with 3.9. Regardless of what people said afterwards... I guess now everyone agrees, after all those evil things we did that people crucified us for turned out to be not that bad after all. Marcus
Marcus Don't bame yourself. You did a good job and of course we could have stop earth to turn on itself but got no time for that :) Now the cool news is that there is the cool CompiledMethodTrailer in pharo1.1 and the changes of david lewis that are waiting for you :).... Rest from your Ikea unfolding and building furnitures :) I should rest from projects writing but I have one to write.... and I want it. Stef
On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Yes :)
Marcus would like to have code inside the image... since a couple of years :)
yes... Klaus Witzel worked on this some years ago (I think even after I told him that this would be high on my list... Klaus used to live in Bern and visited the Squeak meeting there regularly.)
This did not make it into 3.9... we ran a bit out of steam at the end :-)
Maybe I should explain that I did 3.9 in parallel to my PhD work. Unpayed, with no hidden side agenda other than the realization that one can't invent the future if one can not even fix a typo in a comment.
I think one could critisize that I just integrated other peoples fixes... but that had multiple reasons:
1) Focus was on the PhD.... and doing all these boring things that are a lot of work that one needs to do to have a future in Research.
2) Of what use is it to do some cool enancement for Squeak if chances of integration are zero? I never understood the brave people who did sent patch after patch with almost nothing ending up in the system.
3) Integrating is far less trivial than people might think.
Integrating is especially difficult in a system "with a history" like Squeak. But in the end, I think we did a good job with 3.9. Regardless of what people said afterwards... I guess now everyone agrees, after all those evil things we did that people crucified us for turned out to be not that bad after all.
Marcus
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 08:49:23PM +0100, Marcus Denker wrote:
On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:27 AM, St?phane Ducasse wrote:
Yes :)
Marcus would like to have code inside the image... since a couple of years :)
yes... Klaus Witzel worked on this some years ago (I think even after I told him that this would be high on my list... Klaus used to live in Bern and visited the Squeak meeting there regularly.)
This did not make it into 3.9... we ran a bit out of steam at the end :-)
Maybe I should explain that I did 3.9 in parallel to my PhD work. Unpayed, with no hidden side agenda other than the realization that one can't invent the future if one can not even fix a typo in a comment.
I think one could critisize that I just integrated other peoples fixes... but that had multiple reasons:
1) Focus was on the PhD.... and doing all these boring things that are a lot of work that one needs to do to have a future in Research.
2) Of what use is it to do some cool enancement for Squeak if chances of integration are zero? I never understood the brave people who did sent patch after patch with almost nothing ending up in the system.
3) Integrating is far less trivial than people might think.
Integrating is especially difficult in a system "with a history" like Squeak. But in the end, I think we did a good job with 3.9. Regardless of what people said afterwards... I guess now everyone agrees, after all those evil things we did that people crucified us for turned out to be not that bad after all.
Marcus, Absolutely yes, on both counts. System integration really is hard work, and it is much more difficult and time consuming that it appears to be. Also you produced a good job with 3.9, with lots of progress that forms the basis of Pharo and Squeak trunk today. So thank you! It is an interesting challenge to do work like this using tools like a mailing list and bug trackers. It is very easy for negative ideas to be echoed endlessly, to the point where they seem to have their own credibility. The positive comments are less common and nobody ever wants to argue about them, so the echoes fade away quickly. Dave
participants (4)
-
David T. Lewis -
Igor Stasenko -
Marcus Denker -
Stéphane Ducasse