[Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image). I wonder if there are another package with MD5? Cheers, Esteban
Esteban, IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin. Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo? Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image). I wonder if there are another package with MD5? Cheers, Esteban _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Bill, please note that Esteban just needs a standard hash algorithm. No encryption. Some time ago we discussed including hash functions from Cryptography in Pharo core. We postponed it then because it seemed that maybe some people would join and make Cryptography work in Pharo. An OpenSSL interface would be a very interesting alternative too. In any case I think we should add MD5 and maybe some other hash functions to the core. Will add this to my todo list. Adrian On Jul 18, 2009, at 05:09 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Esteban,
IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/ Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin.
Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
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Yes this is a good idea. Stef On Jul 18, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Bill, please note that Esteban just needs a standard hash algorithm. No encryption.
Some time ago we discussed including hash functions from Cryptography in Pharo core. We postponed it then because it seemed that maybe some people would join and make Cryptography work in Pharo. An OpenSSL interface would be a very interesting alternative too.
In any case I think we should add MD5 and maybe some other hash functions to the core. Will add this to my todo list.
Adrian
On Jul 18, 2009, at 05:09 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Esteban,
IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/ Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin.
Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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Great! On 2009-07-18 05:16:26 -0300, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> said:
Yes this is a good idea.
Stef
On Jul 18, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Bill, please note that Esteban just needs a standard hash algorithm. No encryption.
Some time ago we discussed including hash functions from Cryptography in Pharo core. We postponed it then because it seemed that maybe some people would join and make Cryptography work in Pharo. An OpenSSL interface would be a very interesting alternative too.
In any case I think we should add MD5 and maybe some other hash functions to the core. Will add this to my todo list.
Adrian
On Jul 18, 2009, at 05:09 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Esteban,
IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/ Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin.
Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ]
On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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Stef, What about import/export restrictions? I prefer to leave to other forums the debate on whether or not goverments (especially mine) has any business at all restricting such things. However, they do restrict them, and we might do better to steer clear of cryptography, or at least make it separately downloadable. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 3:16 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo? Yes this is a good idea. Stef On Jul 18, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Bill, please note that Esteban just needs a standard hash algorithm. No encryption.
Some time ago we discussed including hash functions from Cryptography in Pharo core. We postponed it then because it seemed that maybe some people would join and make Cryptography work in Pharo. An OpenSSL interface would be a very interesting alternative too.
In any case I think we should add MD5 and maybe some other hash functions to the core. Will add this to my todo list.
Adrian
On Jul 18, 2009, at 05:09 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Esteban,
IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/ Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin.
Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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I only talked about incorporating hash functions like MD5. AFAIK these are no problem. Adrian On Jul 18, 2009, at 15:10 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
What about import/export restrictions? I prefer to leave to other forums the debate on whether or not goverments (especially mine) has any business at all restricting such things. However, they do restrict them, and we might do better to steer clear of cryptography, or at least make it separately downloadable.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 3:16 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Yes this is a good idea.
Stef
On Jul 18, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Bill, please note that Esteban just needs a standard hash algorithm. No encryption.
Some time ago we discussed including hash functions from Cryptography in Pharo core. We postponed it then because it seemed that maybe some people would join and make Cryptography work in Pharo. An OpenSSL interface would be a very interesting alternative too.
In any case I think we should add M5 and maybe some other hash functions to the core. Will add this to my todo list.
Adrian
On Jul 18, 2009, at 05:09 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Esteban,
IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/ Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin.
Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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Adrian, I stand by my answer. The cryptography team took on too much work and ended up burning out. Beyond that, OpenSSL will have "brand loyalty" that a home-grown library will struggle to match. Include what you want[*], but we should also provide something that attaches to OpenSSL and can therefore benefit from its maintenance cycle. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:42 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo? Bill, please note that Esteban just needs a standard hash algorithm. No encryption. Some time ago we discussed including hash functions from Cryptography in Pharo core. We postponed it then because it seemed that maybe some people would join and make Cryptography work in Pharo. An OpenSSL interface would be a very interesting alternative too. In any case I think we should add MD5 and maybe some other hash functions to the core. Will add this to my todo list. Adrian On Jul 18, 2009, at 05:09 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Esteban,
IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/ Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin.
Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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Hi Bill, Schwab,Wilhelm K pravi:
I stand by my answer. The cryptography team took on too much work and ended up burning out. Beyond that, OpenSSL will have "brand loyalty" that a home-grown library will struggle to match. Include what you want[*], but we should also provide something that attaches to OpenSSL and can therefore benefit from its maintenance cycle.
Having experience with Swazoo 1.0 OpenSSL support I can tell that maintaining such interface to external library is not easy. Consider all platforms you need to maintain, and adapting to new versions... Not to mention that end user need to install OpenSSL libraries, which at least on Windows is not as easy as it should be. So, for simple things as hashes like MD5 and SHA and some other basic crypto functions it is certainly better to have implementations in Smalltalk. While for a whole SSL it is better to have the interface to the external library. Cryptography package should therefore stay and be maintained at least for basic crypto stuff. But I'd be very hapy iff someone could develop the XML signature and encryption support, combining existing crypto and XML functionality into something really useful in nowadays digital world ... Janko
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:42 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Bill, please note that Esteban just needs a standard hash algorithm. No encryption.
Some time ago we discussed including hash functions from Cryptography in Pharo core. We postponed it then because it seemed that maybe some people would join and make Cryptography work in Pharo. An OpenSSL interface would be a very interesting alternative too.
In any case I think we should add MD5 and maybe some other hash functions to the core. Will add this to my todo list.
Adrian
On Jul 18, 2009, at 05:09 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Esteban,
IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/ Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin.
Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
-- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch> wrote:
Bill, please note that Esteban just needs a standard hash algorithm. No encryption.
Some time ago we discussed including hash functions from Cryptography in Pharo core. We postponed it then because it seemed that maybe some people would join and make Cryptography work in Pharo. An OpenSSL interface would be a very interesting alternative too.
In any case I think we should add MD5 and maybe some other hash functions to the core. Will add this to my todo list.
I think tihs can be easy as perhaps the only thing you must do is to copy the MD5 class to the core. I think it has no dependencies...But I should check that
Adrian
On Jul 18, 2009, at 05:09 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Esteban,
IMHO, the correct path is to write an interface for OpenSSL. Ultimately, that should also give us SSL sockets, but long before that, it can provide various hashes and cyphers with very little effort. I am open on whether the interface should be FFI, Alien, or plugin based. One argument for a plugin could come through benefits that _might_ acrue to sockets. I have along way to go on Squeak/ Pharo external interfacing, so I could be way off here(!!), but I am under the impression that plugins can use OS threads, and that could greatly simplify getting OpenSSL to not hang the entire image while waiting on things to happen to/on a socket; that benefit would come at the cost of having to write a plugin.
Another option might be to use FFI/Alien to access the cyphers and have a plugin for the SSL sockets. Hopefully someone with Squeak external interfacing experience will tell us "where be the dragons" with the various options.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:25 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MD5 in pharo?
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
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2009/7/18 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
Hi, Some time ago, I read a thread about cryotography, and as far as I remember, some body says about integrate the basic algoritms (MD5 and maybe others) as part of the pharo core. Well... now I need to use MD5 and cryptography package is not working well (it opens a debugger each time I save my image).
Probably a change of InputSensor... If you load Cryptography-RJT.10, then replace the call to #mousePoint with #cursorPoint (in RandomGenerator>>#unpredictableStringsDo:) Nicolas
I wonder if there are another package with MD5?
Cheers, Esteban
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participants (7)
-
Adrian Lienhard -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Janko Mivšek -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Nicolas Cellier -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Stéphane Ducasse