[Pharo-project] HMI (was: One more project proposal for GSoC)
So, here is the proposal: Name: Khubbatov Rustem Difficulty Level: Intermediate Description A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber. Technical Details A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and Pharo. Benefits for the Student The student will gain experience in building client-server applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between client and server. Benefits for the Community An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building complex client-server systems. Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Monday, 2 April 2012 г. at 21:47, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Dennis,
I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page.
Best regards Janko
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com (mailto:chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote:
Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov), another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better approach.
The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, isn't it?
An alternative task could be to build a framework for message exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework.
Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin
I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit of Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample projects for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good introduction to the functionality required of a HMI development tool. What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC containing the running control model of the plant, providing measured values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and driving relays and actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the mimic of the PLC as a graphical representation of the plant, colourizing warning and alarm conditions, fill levels of tanks and allowing the operator to send commands to the PLC to start machinery. Something doing this based in Smalltalk would be wonderful. [1] http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/auto... [2] http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx Dennis Schetinin wrote:
So, here is the proposal:
Name: Khubbatov Rustem
Difficulty Level: Intermediate
Description A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber.
Technical Details
A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and Pharo.
Benefits for the Student
The student will gain experience in building client-server applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between client and server.
Benefits for the Community
An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building complex client-server systems.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
On Monday, 2 April 2012 г. at 21:47, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Dennis,
I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page.
Best regards Janko
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com (mailto:chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote:
Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov), another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better approach.
The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, isn't it?
An alternative task could be to build a framework for message exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework.
Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin
Thank you for the references. "Two-tier" here means that UI (in this project) is running in browser. We have a server that provides "logic" (model for UI) and a client that just represents and allows to control that model (the latter translates those control actions into commands for devices it controls). Over the longer term, there could be different types of clients (desktop, mobile, etc.). â¦And one more thing: We see HMI in a wider perspective then just SCADA, as this approach (I hope) can be applied to network management, building automation, time and attendance etc. All these applications have many common aspects and it would great to extract them to an extensible platform that allows to build any kind of these systems or even their combinations. And I see that Smalltalk is the best tool to build such a platform today â¦Except maybe data-acquisition part as it does not have sufficient mass of libraries for different protocols. So, in fact I see a three-tier system: data-acquisition subsystem, business logic subsystem, and UI subsystem with at least two of them written in Smalltalk. So, that was the inspiration for the project that I suggested to Rustem as a term project some time ago and now he translated to the GSoC proposal. BTW, the project does not have the second mentor yet. Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, 3 April 2012 г. at 18:54, Ben Coman wrote:
I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit of Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample projects for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good introduction to the functionality required of a HMI development tool.
What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC containing the running control model of the plant, providing measured values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and driving relays and actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the mimic of the PLC as a graphical representation of the plant, colourizing warning and alarm conditions, fill levels of tanks and allowing the operator to send commands to the PLC to start machinery. Something doing this based in Smalltalk would be wonderful.
[1] http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/auto...
[2] http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx
Dennis Schetinin wrote:
So, here is the proposal:
Name: Khubbatov Rustem
Difficulty Level: Intermediate
Description A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber.
Technical Details
A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and Pharo.
Benefits for the Student
The student will gain experience in building client-server applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between client and server.
Benefits for the Community
An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building complex client-server systems.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
On Monday, 2 April 2012 г. at 21:47, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Dennis,
I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page.
Best regards Janko
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com (mailto:chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote:
Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov), another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better approach.
The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, isn't it?
An alternative task could be to build a framework for message exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework.
Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin
Hi Dennis, We corresponded about this time last year when you where getting the Amber-MMI GSoC project started. I have just suggested a 2013 GSoC project [1] to implement the Modbus industrial communications protocol in Smalltalk. I think it has application to provide a data acquisition layer for the Amber-MMI project you mentored last year. I believe the industrial automation sector doesn't need Smalltalk to support a large number of comms protocols. Modbus together with the Amber-MMI should be sufficient to crack the chicken-and-egg problem. An optimistic scenario would be Modbus helping Amber-MMI find a revenue stream from industrial plant clients, which funds additional requirements for the Amber-MMI, and as that grows in features it becomes more worthwhile for someone to fund other industrial protocols. I know I did not step-up as a second mentor with you last year - but at that time I was really not confident in my Smalltalk ability and also I was working a 60 hour week on a large construction job that was behind schedule, yet I was wondering.... could I interest you in being second mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? Since the past 12 months I am now confident in my Smalltalk programming, and I have the domain knowledge of configuring and troubleshooting Modbus from programming PLCs and CitectSCADA as part of my employment. I foresee I would do most of the leg-work, but I'd like someone with greater OO experience to advise on best practice OO architecture. A bit more about me here [2] and also [3]. What do you think? cheers -ben [1] http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas#h-40 [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/bencoman [3] http://blog.openinworld.com/ On 04/04/1012 Dennis Schetinin wrote:
Thank you for the references.
"Two-tier" here means that UI (in this project) is running in browser. We have a server that provides "logic" (model for UI) and a client that just represents and allows to control that model (the latter translates those control actions into commands for devices it controls). Over the longer term, there could be different types of clients (desktop, mobile, etc.).
â¦And one more thing: We see HMI in a wider perspective then just SCADA, as this approach (I hope) can be applied to network management, building automation, time and attendance etc. All these applications have many common aspects and it would great to extract them to an extensible platform that allows to build any kind of these systems or even their combinations. And I see that Smalltalk is the best tool to build such a platform today â¦Except maybe data-acquisition part as it does not have sufficient mass of libraries for different protocols. So, in fact I see a three-tier system: data-acquisition subsystem, business logic subsystem, and UI subsystem with at least two of them written in Smalltalk.
So, that was the inspiration for the project that I suggested to Rustem as a term project some time ago and now he translated to the GSoC proposal.
BTW, the project does not have the second mentor yet.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
On Tuesday, 3 April 2012 г. at 18:54, Ben Coman wrote:
I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit of Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample projects for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good introduction to the functionality required of a HMI development tool.
What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC containing the running control model of the plant, providing measured values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and driving relays and actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the mimic of the PLC as a graphical representation of the plant, colourizing warning and alarm conditions, fill levels of tanks and allowing the operator to send commands to the PLC to start machinery. Something doing this based in Smalltalk would be wonderful.
[1] http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/auto...
[2] http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx
Dennis Schetinin wrote:
So, here is the proposal:
Name: Khubbatov Rustem
Difficulty Level: Intermediate
Description A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber.
Technical Details
A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and Pharo.
Benefits for the Student
The student will gain experience in building client-server applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between client and server.
Benefits for the Community
An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building complex client-server systems.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
On Monday, 2 April 2012 г. at 21:47, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Dennis,
I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page.
Best regards Janko
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com (mailto:chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote:
Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov), another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better approach.
The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, isn't it?
An alternative task could be to build a framework for message exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework.
Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin
Hi guys, Just to know that you have all my support on this project. Getting Smalltalk back into industrial plants (we were already there) is certainly a path to better professionalization and monetization of our efforts as a community. Which then returns back to help to be more live, lively and to earn for live out of our passion. Best regards Janko Dne 29. 03. 2013 14:52, piše Ben Coman:
Hi Dennis,
We corresponded about this time last year when you where getting the Amber-MMI GSoC project started. I have just suggested a 2013 GSoC project [1] to implement the Modbus industrial communications protocol in Smalltalk. I think it has application to provide a data acquisition layer for the Amber-MMI project you mentored last year. I believe the industrial automation sector doesn't need Smalltalk to support a large number of comms protocols. Modbus together with the Amber-MMI should be sufficient to crack the chicken-and-egg problem. An optimistic scenario would be Modbus helping Amber-MMI find a revenue stream from industrial plant clients, which funds additional requirements for the Amber-MMI, and as that grows in features it becomes more worthwhile for someone to fund other industrial protocols.
I know I did not step-up as a second mentor with you last year - but at that time I was really not confident in my Smalltalk ability and also I was working a 60 hour week on a large construction job that was behind schedule, yet I was wondering.... could I interest you in being second mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? Since the past 12 months I am now confident in my Smalltalk programming, and I have the domain knowledge of configuring and troubleshooting Modbus from programming PLCs and CitectSCADA as part of my employment. I foresee I would do most of the leg-work, but I'd like someone with greater OO experience to advise on best practice OO architecture. A bit more about me here [2] and also [3].
What do you think?
cheers -ben
[1] http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas#h-40 [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/bencoman [3] http://blog.openinworld.com/
On 04/04/1012 Dennis Schetinin wrote:
Thank you for the references. "Two-tier" here means that UI (in this project) is running in browser. We have a server that provides "logic" (model for UI) and a client that just represents and allows to control that model (the latter translates those control actions into commands for devices it controls). Over the longer term, there could be different types of clients (desktop, mobile, etc.).
â¦And one more thing: We see HMI in a wider perspective then just SCADA, as this approach (I hope) can be applied to network management, building automation, time and attendance etc. All these applications have many common aspects and it would great to extract them to an extensible platform that allows to build any kind of these systems or even their combinations. And I see that Smalltalk is the best tool to build such a platform today â¦Except maybe data-acquisition part as it does not have sufficient mass of libraries for different protocols. So, in fact I see a three-tier system: data-acquisition subsystem, business logic subsystem, and UI subsystem with at least two of them written in Smalltalk.
So, that was the inspiration for the project that I suggested to Rustem as a term project some time ago and now he translated to the GSoC proposal. BTW, the project does not have the second mentor yet.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
On Tuesday, 3 April 2012 г. at 18:54, Ben Coman wrote:
I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit of Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample projects for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good introduction to the functionality required of a HMI development tool.
What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC containing the running control model of the plant, providing measured values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and driving relays and actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the mimic of the PLC as a graphical representation of the plant, colourizing warning and alarm conditions, fill levels of tanks and allowing the operator to send commands to the PLC to start machinery. Something doing this based in Smalltalk would be wonderful.
[1] http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/auto...
[2] http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx
Dennis Schetinin wrote:
So, here is the proposal:
Name: Khubbatov Rustem
Difficulty Level: Intermediate
Description A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber. Technical Details
A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and Pharo.
Benefits for the Student
The student will gain experience in building client-server applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between client and server.
Benefits for the Community
An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building complex client-server systems.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
On Monday, 2 April 2012 г. at 21:47, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Dennis,
I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page.
Best regards Janko
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com (mailto:chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote:
Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov), another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better approach. The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, isn't it? An alternative task could be to build a framework for message exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework. Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin
-- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Hello Ben, Just to be short: could I interest you in being second mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? Absolutely yes! I'm not an expert in SCADA systems, but my primary work is a little bit related with this kind of systems, and I was promised to get help and support from one of colleagues who has much more experience with SCADA systems (and used to be a Smalltalker in the past). AFAIK, Modbus is considered a protocol that is old enough to be "slowly getting outdated", but it is still very popular and powerful enough, and will remain it for many years, I believe. Taking into account its simplicity, I can say it is a very good starting point of a Smalltalk-based SCADA. Although, the Amber-MMI project was more about (web-based) UI, I think most of the results we achieved in that project can be applied to SCADA. So, thank you for the offer, I'll be glad to take part in this project. -- Best regards, Dennis Schetinin 2013/3/29 Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com>
Hi Dennis,
We corresponded about this time last year when you where getting the Amber-MMI GSoC project started. I have just suggested a 2013 GSoC project [1] to implement the Modbus industrial communications protocol in Smalltalk. I think it has application to provide a data acquisition layer for the Amber-MMI project you mentored last year. I believe the industrial automation sector doesn't need Smalltalk to support a large number of comms protocols. Modbus together with the Amber-MMI should be sufficient to crack the chicken-and-egg problem. An optimistic scenario would be Modbus helping Amber-MMI find a revenue stream from industrial plant clients, which funds additional requirements for the Amber-MMI, and as that grows in features it becomes more worthwhile for someone to fund other industrial protocols.
I know I did not step-up as a second mentor with you last year - but at that time I was really not confident in my Smalltalk ability and also I was working a 60 hour week on a large construction job that was behind schedule, yet I was wondering.... could I interest you in being second mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? Since the past 12 months I am now confident in my Smalltalk programming, and I have the domain knowledge of configuring and troubleshooting Modbus from programming PLCs and CitectSCADA as part of my employment. I foresee I would do most of the leg-work, but I'd like someone with greater OO experience to advise on best practice OO architecture. A bit more about me here [2] and also [3].
What do you think?
cheers -ben
[1] http://gsoc2013.esug.org/**ideas#h-40<http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas#h-40> [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/**bencoman<http://www.linkedin.com/in/bencoman> [3] http://blog.openinworld.com/
On 04/04/1012 Dennis Schetinin wrote:
Thank you for the references. "Two-tier" here means that UI (in this project) is running in browser. We have a server that provides "logic" (model for UI) and a client that just represents and allows to control that model (the latter translates those control actions into commands for devices it controls). Over the longer term, there could be different types of clients (desktop, mobile, etc.).
â¦And one more thing: We see HMI in a wider perspective then just SCADA, as this approach (I hope) can be applied to network management, building automation, time and attendance etc. All these applications have many common aspects and it would great to extract them to an extensible platform that allows to build any kind of these systems or even their combinations. And I see that Smalltalk is the best tool to build such a platform today â¦Except maybe data-acquisition part as it does not have sufficient mass of libraries for different protocols. So, in fact I see a three-tier system: data-acquisition subsystem, business logic subsystem, and UI subsystem with at least two of them written in Smalltalk.
So, that was the inspiration for the project that I suggested to Rustem as a term project some time ago and now he translated to the GSoC proposal.
BTW, the project does not have the second mentor yet.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.**com/?sig<http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig> )
On Tuesday, 3 April 2012 г. at 18:54, Ben Coman wrote:
I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit of Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample projects for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good introduction to the functionality required of a HMI development tool. What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC containing the running control model of the plant, providing measured values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and driving relays and actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the mimic of the PLC as a graphical representation of the plant, colourizing warning and alarm conditions, fill levels of tanks and allowing the operator to send commands to the PLC to start machinery. Something doing this based in Smalltalk would be wonderful. [1] http://www2.schneider-**electric.com/sites/corporate/** en/products-services/**automation-control/products-** offer/range-presentation.page?**c_filepath=/templatedata/** Offer_Presentation/3_Range_**Datasheet/data/en/shared/** automation_and_control/citect_**scada.xml#<http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/auto...> [2] http://global.wonderware.com/**EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.**aspx<http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx> Dennis Schetinin wrote:
So, here is the proposal: Name: Khubbatov Rustem Difficulty Level: Intermediate Description A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber. Technical Details A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and Pharo. Benefits for the Student The student will gain experience in building client-server applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between client and server. Benefits for the Community An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building complex client-server systems. Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.**com/?sig<http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig> ) On Monday, 2 April 2012 г. at 21:47, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Dennis, I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page. Best regards Janko On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com(mailto: chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote:
Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/**rustem-khubbatov<http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov>), another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better approach. The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, isn't it? An alternative task could be to build a framework for message exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework. Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance. Best regards, Dennis Schetinin
Its great to hear your enthusiasm. Thanks Dennis. Yes Modbus is old, which shows it has withstood the test of time. "Slowly" would definitely be the term I'd use when thinking about Modbus being outdated. Sure there are other newer protocols with more bells and whistles which might make sense for new plants, but they add a lot of unnecessary complexity for existing plants. Many plants have a 20 year old infrastructure and consistency with existing equipment is paramount. Introducing a new protocol is generally avoided due to retraining requirements and supporting two systems in parallel. In my work I have come across small plants that could not justify the _capital_ cost of several thousand dollars for CitectSCADA licenses, so instead they run using just field push buttons and gauges. However they could pay for the engineering _service_ to develop a custom HMI application. Business can be funny that way with different accounting rules applying in each case. That would be the obvious initial target market - small plants that don't have any existing SCADA. cheers -ben <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenfield_project#Greenfield_land> Dennis Schetinin wrote:
Hello Ben,
Just to be short:
could I interest you in being second mentor for the Modbus project [1] ?
Absolutely yes!
I'm not an expert in SCADA systems, but my primary work is a little bit related with this kind of systems, and I was promised to get help and support from one of colleagues who has much more experience with SCADA systems (and used to be a Smalltalker in the past). AFAIK, Modbus is considered a protocol that is old enough to be "slowly getting outdated", but it is still very popular and powerful enough, and will remain it for many years, I believe. Taking into account its simplicity, I can say it is a very good starting point of a Smalltalk-based SCADA. Although, the Amber-MMI project was more about (web-based) UI, I think most of the results we achieved in that project can be applied to SCADA.
So, thank you for the offer, I'll be glad to take part in this project.
--
Best regards,
Dennis Schetinin
2013/3/29 Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com>
Hi Dennis,
We corresponded about this time last year when you where getting the Amber-MMI GSoC project started. I have just suggested a 2013 GSoC project [1] to implement the Modbus industrial communications protocol in Smalltalk. I think it has application to provide a data acquisition layer for the Amber-MMI project you mentored last year. I believe the industrial automation sector doesn't need Smalltalk to support a large number of comms protocols. Modbus together with the Amber-MMI should be sufficient to crack the chicken-and-egg problem. An optimistic scenario would be Modbus helping Amber-MMI find a revenue stream from industrial plant clients, which funds additional requirements for the Amber-MMI, and as that grows in features it becomes more worthwhile for someone to fund other industrial protocols.
I know I did not step-up as a second mentor with you last year - but at that time I was really not confident in my Smalltalk ability and also I was working a 60 hour week on a large construction job that was behind schedule, yet I was wondering.... could I interest you in being second mentor for the Modbus project [1] ? Since the past 12 months I am now confident in my Smalltalk programming, and I have the domain knowledge of configuring and troubleshooting Modbus from programming PLCs and CitectSCADA as part of my employment. I foresee I would do most of the leg-work, but I'd like someone with greater OO experience to advise on best practice OO architecture. A bit more about me here [2] and also [3].
What do you think?
cheers -ben
[1] http://gsoc2013.esug.org/**ideas#h-40<http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas#h-40> [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/**bencoman<http://www.linkedin.com/in/bencoman> [3] http://blog.openinworld.com/
On 04/04/1012 Dennis Schetinin wrote:
Thank you for the references. "Two-tier" here means that UI (in this project) is running in browser. We have a server that provides "logic" (model for UI) and a client that just represents and allows to control that model (the latter translates those control actions into commands for devices it controls). Over the longer term, there could be different types of clients (desktop, mobile, etc.).
â¦And one more thing: We see HMI in a wider perspective then just SCADA, as this approach (I hope) can be applied to network management, building automation, time and attendance etc. All these applications have many common aspects and it would great to extract them to an extensible platform that allows to build any kind of these systems or even their combinations. And I see that Smalltalk is the best tool to build such a platform today â¦Except maybe data-acquisition part as it does not have sufficient mass of libraries for different protocols. So, in fact I see a three-tier system: data-acquisition subsystem, business logic subsystem, and UI subsystem with at least two of them written in Smalltalk.
So, that was the inspiration for the project that I suggested to Rustem as a term project some time ago and now he translated to the GSoC proposal.
BTW, the project does not have the second mentor yet.
Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.**com/?sig<http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig> )
On Tuesday, 3 April 2012 г. at 18:54, Ben Coman wrote:
I am an electrical engineer whose work includes SCADA programing for operator interfaces of industrial plants using Citect [1] and a bit of Wonderware [2]. Both of these products include very nice sample projects for their tutorials - which would provide a student a good introduction to the functionality required of a HMI development tool. What do you mean two-tier HMI? In my work, tier1 would be a PLC containing the running control model of the plant, providing measured values to the control logic programmed in the PLC and driving relays and actuators. Tier2 is the HMI that provides the mimic of the PLC as a graphical representation of the plant, colourizing warning and alarm conditions, fill levels of tanks and allowing the operator to send commands to the PLC to start machinery. Something doing this based in Smalltalk would be wonderful. [1] http://www2.schneider-**electric.com/sites/corporate/** en/products-services/**automation-control/products-** offer/range-presentation.page?**c_filepath=/templatedata/** Offer_Presentation/3_Range_**Datasheet/data/en/shared/** automation_and_control/citect_**scada.xml#<http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/auto...> [2] http://global.wonderware.com/**EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.**aspx<http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareInTouchHMI.aspx> Dennis Schetinin wrote:
So, here is the proposal: Name: Khubbatov Rustem Difficulty Level: Intermediate Description A framework for building Human-Machine Interfaces with Pharo back-end providing model, and presentation front-end in Amber. Technical Details A concrete task that should be implemented with this project is a prototype of UI for network management system or SCADA. Server-side (Pharo) will simulate network components and their data, and provide relevant events for client (Amber). The latter will present network items, their state and associated information, and provide UI to control them. An important part of this system is a communication layer between Amber and Pharo. Benefits for the Student The student will gain experience in building client-server applications with advanced UI and providing two-way communication between client and server. Benefits for the Community An ability to create highly interactive web-based applications is a must-have feature for any modern development system. Amber is a bleeding edge in this area in Smalltalk world. A good communication layer between Amber and (for example) Pharo is a very appealing decision for building complex client-server systems. Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.**com/?sig<http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig> ) On Monday, 2 April 2012 г. at 21:47, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Dennis, I'd suggest to go ahead. This is first Amber-related project, so it seems even more interesting. But hurry up. Let Rustem prepare the proposal and you post here then we'll open the project page. Best regards Janko On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal@gmail.com(mailto: chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote:
Rustem Kkubbatov (http://gsoc2012.esug.org/**rustem-khubbatov<http://gsoc2012.esug.org/rustem-khubbatov>), another student I mentor in Tver State University, decided to try his luck with a project for GSoC. The problem is he can't currently choose a better approach. The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system (which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end (where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing seems to be "a little bit" too large for GSoC, isn't it? An alternative task could be to build a framework for message exchanging between Pharo and Amber. I could be the first mentor for a project based on original idea, or the second/first (depending on if anyone interested) for communication framework. Any ideas and advices are welcome (ASAP). Thank you in advance. Best regards, Dennis Schetinin
participants (3)
-
Ben Coman -
Dennis Schetinin -
Janko Mivšek